13th amendment? is it out the window?

Amendment XIII

Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

Section 2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

ok now correct me if i am wrong but that means you cant force me to work against my will unless i am in prison right?

then how come the messiah our new king -- i mean new president is planning on forcing us to work ?

from change.gov
The Obama Administration will call on Americans to serve in order to meet the nation’s challenges. President-Elect Obama will expand national service programs like AmeriCorps and Peace Corps and will create a new Classroom Corps to help teachers in underserved schools, as well as a new Health Corps, Clean Energy Corps, and Veterans Corps. Obama will call on citizens of all ages to serve America, by developing a plan to require 50 hours of community service in middle school and high school and 100 hours of community service in college every year. Obama will encourage retiring Americans to serve by improving programs available for individuals over age 55, while at the same time promoting youth programs such as Youth Build and Head Start.

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President-Elect Obama will expand national service programs like AmeriCorps and Peace Corps and will create a new Classroom Corps to help teachers in underserved schools, as well as a new Health Corps, Clean Energy Corps, and Veterans Corps. Obama will call on citizens of all ages to serve America, by developing a plan to require 50 hours of community service in middle school and high school and 100 hours of community service in college every year.

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the Christian Democratic Appel in the Netherlands developed a same kind of plan about 9 years ago. Thankfully the 2nd chamber buried the bill and the plan was never implemented.

However that was when the CDA was in the opposition and not the biggest party as they are now. With a democratic majority in the senate and congress you can bet it will get through.

My cousins in the states are going to hate this for sure.

that plan will have huge repercussions aswell

fools who have no strategic and geopolitical insight will be running things.
Teachers salaries will drop as a result of the plan.

I believe the plan will create the exact opposite effect of what Obama wanted to achieve with the plan.


Obama is indeed a new Kennedy allright. Remember this, Kennedy never got a second term and he never finished his first term. You have no idea what Kennedy would have become had he not been assassinated. Kennedy is widely considered to be one of the better U.S. presidents, but would this have been so today, if he had remained alive?
I'm beginning to doubt that.

Even if that was true...

Firstly, high school students doing volunteer service is not forcing people to work. Work is stressful, volunteering is hardly. Anyone who calls volunteer service work should try working for once in their life, I'm sure they can find a wal-mart hiring.

Secondly, you would have four to six years to complete this volunteer service.

Thirdly, I had to do it here in Canada and I'm far from having a traumatized feeling that my rights were disregarded.

Fourth, you can quit if you get sick of whatever volunteering you have been doing, with no repercussions what-so-ever, and go somewhere else.

Fifth, were you complaining about George Bush disregarding the liberty of your country when he started to tap phones or the entire Guantanamo bay garbage, or is it just democratic Presidents you hold to higher standards?

Sixth, it is not going to be 'forced', just like finishing school is not forced; it will simply prevent people from graduating from public school until it is completed.

Seventh, Obama isn't even in office yet; you would sound far more sensible if you waited until he was in office before trying to argue that his policies are ridiculous.

Eighth, are you enjoying the economic meltdown that happened under a Republican President? Obama won because your country was disappointed with how badly they screwed up by allowing Bush to have a second term. They also voting against McCain for allowing the Republican party to persuade him into voting with Bush 90% of the time over the last two years.

Ninth, I suggest you actually read what was on their site before posting crap.

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Obama will call on citizens of all ages to serve America, by setting a goal that all middle school and high school students do 50 hours of community service a year and by developing a plan so that all college students who conduct 100 hours of community service receive a universal and fully refundable tax credit ensuring that the first $4,000 of their college education is completely free.
http://change.gov/americaserves/

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Let's read that over, please.
A: If a college student does over 100 hours they get $4,000 off of college education
B: Setting a goal for middle school & high school students do 50 hours.
Assuming middle school is grade 7,8 and high school is 9-12, you get 6 years to do 50 hours of community service. How much is that per year? 8.3 hours of community service per year, you're complaining about?
C: Do you see the word "forced" anywhere in there? Nice job modifying it to include the word "required" and removing the words "by developing a plan so that all college students who conduct" so that you could make a desperate attempt at convincing gullible people who already dislike Obama to pretend to have another ridiculous reason to think Obama is at fault for everything wrong in their lives.

Tenth, I doubt you'll find anyone who supported Obama who would care if he follows through with this idea.

Well, there is something similar in the international education certificate called the International Baccalaureate. Their Middle-Years Program requires that students do a set number of hours of voluntary community service as part of the program, to help encourage future volunteer work, and develop community spirit. It certainly didn't do me any harm.

community service is required for most universities around here anyway :\

roflmao

obama changed his website and took required out of it - just shows you what a true dictator will do to brainwash his sheeple - soon as he realized he was alienating his flock he changed his stance again


what I posted was a direct quote from his site -- didnt take him long to change his mind again! or at least to make it look like he did

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Originally Posted by Greeney

Even if that was true...

Firstly, high school students doing volunteer service is not forcing people to work. Work is stressful, volunteering is hardly. Anyone who calls volunteer service work should try working for once in their life, I'm sure they can find a wal-mart hiring.

Secondly, you would have four to six years to complete this volunteer service.

Thirdly, I had to do it here in Canada and I'm far from having a traumatized feeling that my rights were disregarded.

Fourth, you can quit if you get sick of whatever volunteering you have been doing, with no repercussions what-so-ever, and go somewhere else.

Fifth, were you complaining about George Bush disregarding the liberty of your country when he started to tap phones or the entire Guantanamo bay garbage, or is it just democratic Presidents you hold to higher standards?

Sixth, it is not going to be 'forced', just like finishing school is not forced; it will simply prevent people from graduating from public school until it is completed.

Seventh, Obama isn't even in office yet; you would sound far more sensible if you waited until he was in office before trying to argue that his policies are ridiculous.

Eighth, are you enjoying the economic meltdown that happened under a Republican President? Obama won because your country was disappointed with how badly they screwed up by allowing Bush to have a second term. They also voting against McCain for allowing the Republican party to persuade him into voting with Bush 90% of the time over the last two years.

Ninth, I suggest you actually read what was on their site before posting crap.



Let's read that over, please.
A: If a college student does over 100 hours they get $4,000 off of college education
B: Setting a goal for middle school & high school students do 50 hours.
Assuming middle school is grade 7,8 and high school is 9-12, you get 6 years to do 50 hours of community service. How much is that per year? 8.3 hours of community service per year, you're complaining about?
C: Do you see the word "forced" anywhere in there? Nice job modifying it to include the word "required" and removing the words "by developing a plan so that all college students who conduct" so that you could make a desperate attempt at convincing gullible people who already dislike Obama to pretend to have another ridiculous reason to think Obama is at fault for everything wrong in their lives.

Tenth, I doubt you'll find anyone who supported Obama who would care if he follows through with this idea.

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The word forced may not be in that but it can be legalistically construed as forced.
For one thing it has the word "required" in the "Integrate Service into Learning" subsection "Require 100 Hours of Service in College" part of Obama's plan. [1]
Therefore it is reasonable to assume he intends it for school too, given that
he is most certainly a communist.
It is called forced voluntary community service.
As for setting a goal to do 50 hours in six years, it says:"Obama and Biden will set a goal that all middle and high school students do 50 hours of community service a year."
To me it sounds more like 50 hours each year.
The statement "set a goal that all middle and high school students do 50
hours of community service a year." can easily be construed by todays legal system to mean compulsory voluntary community service.
Its double speak, court annexed voluntary arbitration is one example of a
double speak phrase used today.

Of course, it probably won't be called compulsory it most likely will be called voluntary.

As for Bush's wiretapping, and guantanamo. I personally think Bush should of been impeached, I petitioned for it.
Bush is an evil man, who totally disregards the US Constitution.

Regarding it not being considered forced because said individual will just drop out, it doesn't exactly fly because parents want the child to go to school. I imagine some parents would perceive, or truly do not have a choice regarding schooling of the children.
I think it is illegal, or fast becoming illegal in parts of the country to choose
homeschooling.
Than of course, a lot of people find life harder due to dropping out.

The Economic meltdown has been coming for at least three decades now.
Part of the groundwork for the current economic meltdown was set by President Clinton(a democrat).

Volunteer work might and might not be stressful, however in this case it is still forced.
It is still work without pay in the middle to high school, it will still be getting things done that the government wants done for free and forced.
I suspect it will be hard types of work in this case.
Like BlueFaeryDust said, it violates amendment XIII.

I suspect there is some kind of trick to the following statement:"Obama and Biden will establish a new American Opportunity Tax Credit that is worth $4,000 a year in exchange for 100 hours of public service a year.", when it comes to the source of the $4,000. But I am still looking into it.

"Equal obligation of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture."
"Communist Manifesto" 8th plank

"Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, etc."
"Communist Manifesto" 10th plank

sources
[1]
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/se...able-americans

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Originally Posted by Bluefaerydust

roflmao

obama changed his website and took required out of it - just shows you what a true dictator will do to brainwash his sheeple - soon as he realized he was alienating his flock he changed his stance again


what I posted was a direct quote from his site -- didnt take him long to change his mind again! or at least to make it look like he did

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I looked around the internet, and found the word "require" still on his campaign site. Which is the link I just posted.

$4000 for college you morons, 50 hours a year so is so hard? You spend more time than that on the toilet in a year. Try a real job, I work 60 hours a WEEK, 50 hours a year is less than 8 and a half minutes a day, your life will be so horribly ruined that your forced to help your community for less time than it take to listen to three songs. Oh and you'd be making $8 an hour while doing it. Cry me a river.

50 7th
50 8th
100 9th
100 10th
100 11th
100 12th
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500 Hours

$4000

13th amendment wins over any complain you have. You have no right to a public education, just a privilege that hopes every capable American achieves a complete education. Part of that privilege says that to obtain a public education you must complete a certain amount of community service. Nowhere does it say you must obtain a degree before you can pursue other options. Nowhere does it say that a person must obtain a degree from a public school.
If you want a degree, do the public service. 1 You should do the public service to connect the community and improve the community. 2. Participate in community service to evaluate yourself, your life, your values, your expriences, and your point of view.

the only flaw with that theory is if you dont go to school you risk prosecution for truancy and face criminal charges ..... and what if i dont want/need the money for college

who is going to supervise this forced service? Teachers have enough to do already without more bs

1- I don't think all rights afforded under the constitutional amendments are applied to kids (under 18) anyway.
2 - I live in one of the most bass-ackward states in the union (TN) yet in my county our high schools require community service of all high school seniors - as in you can't graduate unless it's done. Some of the schools (called Magnet schools - but they are public schools supported with tax dollars) also require service hours of the parents to be served through the kid's school and those are required hours, too. If the parent doesn't do the required hours and/or doesn't attend all parent conferences, the child loses their spot at the Magnet school and has to go to the public school they are zoned for.

I think public service should be required of all citizens... or maybe not required as in you get a penalty for not doing it but maybe something like giving huge tax breaks to those who do or some other form of incentive. Too many people don't give a crap about anyone but themselves any more. It's all about instant gratification and it's all about me!

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Originally Posted by Bluefaerydust

the only flaw with that theory is if you dont go to school you risk prosecution for truancy and face criminal charges ..... and what if i dont want/need the money for college

who is going to supervise this forced service? Teachers have enough to do already without more bs

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The military?! =)

I can imagine the drill sarge yelling "move move move"

pretty much what i was thinking darkz....