Rebalanced elite values

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24-09-2018, 02:23
Niko

Rebalanced elite values

Elites:
Avians: Offense: 8 Defense: 3 Networth: 9 Cost: 900
Dwarves: Offense: 7 Defense: 4 Networth: 9.5 Cost: 950
Elves: Offense: 7 Defense: 4 Networth: 9.5 Cost: 950
Faeries: Offense: 4 Defense: 7 Networth: 10 Cost: 1000
Halflings: Offense: 6 Defense: 6 Networth: 8.5 Cost: 850
Humans: Offense: 8 Defense: 3 Networth: 9 Cost: 900
Orcs: Offense: 9 Defense: 2 Networth: 9 Cost: 900

Specialist offense is currently valued at 0,8 NW per point for all races. Specialist defense is currently valued at 1,0 NW per point for all races. Elite offense and defense should be valued slightly higher than specialist offense and defense for all races because elites are stronger than specialists. The suggested NW values elite offense at ~0,9 NW per point and elite defense at ~1,1 NW per point for all races (with the total rounded down to the nearest 0,5 less one). The exception is Halflings, who enjoy a unique elite (whose NW is based off the average NW per troop of a typical province with a 9.5 NW elite). This balances troop values relative to one another.

The current strength of specialists is 6 points. The best defensive troop of each race should have 6-7 defense. The best offensive troop of each race should have 6-9 offense. This ensures that each race has the potential to attack each other race (within their NW range). Attacking is an important mechanic because it generates multiple levels of interaction with the game.

e: I want to point out that cost is standard at (elitenw*100gc).
24-09-2018, 22:46
elmoheadbutt

No need to bump up offense. There's already horses and prisoners/mercs. I think the current numbers are very well-balanced as you CAN be UB, but only just UB.
25-09-2018, 04:35
Ethan

Simply adding the offense and defense NW doesn't work out right though. Most extreme example is faery - 6 def for 6 NW, or 7 for 10. That last point takes up 4 NW... even with the land NW savings and all the other nice things for elites, that last point is simply not worth the extra NW.

It hinges on the central point that you can't attack and defend with the same unit at the same time. So the main NW cost of the unit should be based on their better stat - and the secondary stat should only factor a little bit into it.

I do agree some of the current values are dumb. Any dwarf (in a waring kingdom) running more than 2 epa is a laughingstock, and I'd always advise checking a mostly dwarf kingdom as a war target if NW is close to see if they are this type of bad. I don't mind the NW cost being fairly high (like Avian) so that specs and elites are similar in NW cost (after whole prov effects are factored in), but think even Human's elite has gone too far currently.
25-09-2018, 09:07
BoBDuDe

I am thinking halfling cost 1000 and orc cost 950

may i suggest something? it seems that the elites are all based on 11/12 value i assume because of the specs value of 6.

why not have some elites off/def total values be higher/lower than other races? maybe add unit value effects in personalities? (ie ospecs and/or dspecs +1/2/3 (for 7/8/9 respectively)

but overall... i firmly believe that unit wages (miltarily) particulary elite wages... are far too low across the board.
25-09-2018, 21:50
Niko

Quote:

Originally Posted by elmoheadbutt

No need to bump up offense. There's already horses and prisoners/mercs. I think the current numbers are very well-balanced as you CAN be UB, but only just UB.

I'm more concerned for NW balance. First, rather than inflate anything (like offense), I deflated areas that were bloated (like defense). Next, rather than add arbitrary NW to balance the resulting elites, I added real NW in the form of offense. This happened to provide that every race has (at least a small) potential to break any other race at close range.

For example, an optimized Halfling attacker with 70% population as 6/x elites attacks an equal size, optimized Faery defender with 70% population as x/7 elites. If optimized (i.e. all mods are capped), the Halfling just beats the Faery by ~10%. This would rarely happen in game, but it would have the potential to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ethan

Simply adding the offense and defense NW doesn't work out right though. Most extreme example is faery - 6 def for 6 NW, or 7 for 10. That last point takes up 4 NW... even with the land NW savings and all the other nice things for elites, that last point is simply not worth the extra NW.

I don't follow your calculations. I used (4off * 0,9) + (7def * 1,1nw) - 1nw (rounded down to the nearest 0,5) = 10nw. At 6def, the result would be 9nw (a difference of 1nw).

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoBDuDe

why not have some elites off/def total values be higher/lower than other races? maybe add unit value effects in personalities? (ie ospecs and/or dspecs +1/2/3 (for 7/8/9 respectively)

Racial mods should definitely be used to further balance and stratify attackers. Not nonsense elite values. :3 <3