Unbalanced OP undeads

It is entirely possible I am in the wrong thread of this forum, but still mega surprised I am the first one to rant here about this - the Undeads.

So I am a Faery/Mystic this age unfortunately, and all I am looking for from this game in the haze of the nostalgy is seeing that Meteor shower message turning green every now and again and the opponent suffering the pain, while I imagine them swearing a bit and then carrying on with their mid-life crisis ridden life ( im sure majority of us fit this bracket ) my main worry, while lurking these brown html pages, would be the tpa and holding the rogues at bay... if they would be really adamant surely they would get me but it would take them everything, and surely with my t/m guild we would retaliate from the domain of the mages and so the balance would be reintroduced to the world.

BUT NO... thanks to this imbalance even with the now all out defense im getting hit every OOW with max leets that fit my land 16ish EPA, max military eff, 15% Forts, Mp, Gp, TW the works... hitting me is a pastime to these elite mongering undeads now, with the strongest defense elite in the game i should have at least a peace of mind I am not hit left and right every bloody day! Even though we war every opportunity there are small gaps indeed. So could someone just tell me now, what is the medicine to not have to Dice myself back up every day and retrain 1-2k elites to stay max leets, how to look pretty and stay out of it. If this is by design why have defense or defensive races at all in this game if defense has no meaning and offense is favoured and defense ridiculed, as this is a joke at the moment.

Rant over

If your goal is to be not hit, adjust your defense higher. Lower your tpa, wpa, ppa.

Mp and Bp? Just fyi - thats a waste of runes for you as they dont multiply ... true defensive turtling has always been a struggle as Offense is always favoured above Defense by the game designers, i suppose they dont want half the server just hiding all Age ... as for your Province, try max Forts also and high to max GS to dissuade any potential attackers ...

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Originally Posted by .:. The Moon .:.

Mp and Bp? Just fyi - thats a waste of runes for you as they dont multiply ...

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What on earth do you mean, mp and gp do stack very well.

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Originally Posted by Exo

What on earth do you mean, mp and gp do stack very well.

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I used to foolishly cast both when they didn't stack.. :o but these days they do stack. In other words it may have just been an honest oversight by "The Moon" to claim otherwise.

Pure t/ms always have this problem in the non-whoring tier and non-optimum war kingdoms. My solution was born ages ago playing in The Faery Circle. I confess I barely ever play pure t/ms, but I have played an attacker hybrid faery several times. I retaliate as a way of life. I'm partial to faery cleric to absorb losses and ignore plague since undead have always been prevalent in ages the race is available.

When I don't play faery and run an attacker I like to retal for my kingdoms t/ms. My opinion of the CF culture is that of wasted opportunity. Mind you, I don't play for resources I play to enjoy strategy. Through practice in and out of war I've found faery capable of slogging with any attacker race. Without good diplomacy you need to be meter aware.

If it means anything I've retaliated attacks from every tier regardless of their advantages playing faery. I shun attacking down(hitting smaller kingdoms or apparently naive players) because it doesn't trigger my challenge DNA. I'm not even a good province manager, I simply enjoy mixing it up with heavy attackers.

I handle the Undead offenses this way I play Elf/Paladin attacker and get randommed as everyone else, when I get hit by an Undead I always assume they want me to hit them back to allow for more elite conversions, so naturally unless I get hit by someone on very low peasants that will obliously get hurt if I retaliate directly I look for any non undead in range in their kingdom and hit that province. It does not keep people from retaliating my retals, but it does feel much better than playing into the hands of the undead players, and it feels good knowing I probably smite 4 out of every 5 hits on me.

And don't forget to learn attackers because habitually hitting other t/ms means good things.

I lost track of changes ... time and doom ...

Problem is conversion.
For best returns high nwa fae is best choice because they cant retal (many of them is all elite) and have higher def so more epa for ud.
Having off is better choice as i naturally pass offense oriented tms.

When enemy hit one of your tm, best retal is to hit their fae tms as well. i try to hit the biggest fae rogue as retal because enemy mostly will want to have bigger rogues than mystics.

The reason I don't hit t/ms is purely out of respect. I consider random exchanges, even most waves, as play time. I'll hit t/ms if they hit me, but otherwise try not to hinder kingdoms unnecessarily.

If things are serious or we have a mutually agreed war, then I'll strike t/ms as priority. I'll even go so far as not hitting attackers in critical chain alignment, so I'll look for retal vs attacker groups in tight nw proximity. I'm a nice guy and would much rather face challenging opponents than vulture.

All a guy has to do is message me that their kingdom is prepping for war and I'll leave them alone. No need for CF.

I will almost always try to hit a TM when hitting OOW since there is little to no chance of retal. Also when a smaller province hits me and I don't have good gains on it, I'll usually hit their TM to make the TM complain to the small attacker to quit it.

16 EPA is pretty low though.

I agree with your logistical strategy for the practical play style.

For me, my purpose is to learn through strife. So I'm running a faery cleric late of age with deplurable science in a world of bigger, faster, well built provinces with an age worth of science. I told my kingdom I required no aid and only accept what is given; I never ask or post for aid.

Why? It's a sharpening philosophy. I'm outgunned in every encounter so I have to find ways to adapt and overcome. Nobody retaliates for me.

I could just set out to vulture and draw meter in my favor, but that'd bore me. The honor charts speak for themselves. When a t/m is determined to eclipse the attacker field it can be done.

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Originally Posted by StratOcastle

I agree with your logistical strategy for the practical play style.

For me, my purpose is to learn through strife. So I'm running a faery cleric late of age with deplurable science in a world of bigger, faster, well built provinces with an age worth of science. I told my kingdom I required no aid and only accept what is given; I never ask or post for aid.

Why? It's a sharpening philosophy. I'm outgunned in every encounter so I have to find ways to adapt and overcome. Nobody retaliates for me.

I could just set out to vulture and draw meter in my favor, but that'd bore me. The honor charts speak for themselves. When a t/m is determined to eclipse the attacker field it can be done.

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is fae/ttacker outgunned in ANY sense of the word? Does pop diff count for anything when you have 280% OME on a fae heavy? I like the build, seen it played in my kd for the past 3 ages (albeit with warhero for elite converts) it gets semi chained midwar every time to combat the rapidly approaching UB status, and it recovers better than any prov i've seen, since it just trains more ospecs and gets the def for free. They hit lightning quick, have every offensive and defensive spell available to them and they can survive on half the ppa another race can, maybe even less, due to having very low wage costs at war start (read as few elites, and ToG)

I'd say it's perception more than reality. In short, once I ran a faery attacker I knew I could run about anything as an attacker. I agree with you in the sense that faery has all the tools necessary; I'm more referring to my play style and environment.

Since I never attack unprovoked I'm generally assured those that attack me have measured the risk. As usual, my entire army is hit at home equating high casualties. Most attacks are by dedicated heavy attackers with lopsided science and physical build pattern.

In war, faery are particularly strong. Some kingdom-think disgard many alternatives because of rigid strategic doctrine. For example, in the war I was in this age my province was too green to be a military threat so I concentrated on being an economic asset to my kingdom. It's why I often recommend kingdoms run a few rovers/campers free to micro toward kingdom interests. This doesn't mean they aren't subject to orders, but that their assets are shaping tools.

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Originally Posted by ryvrdrgn14

I will almost always try to hit a TM when hitting OOW since there is little to no chance of retal.

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Sure right, if it is your own multi TM province they dont seem to make drama and cry a lot to everyone.

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Originally Posted by StratOcastle

I agree with your logistical strategy for the practical play style.

For me, my purpose is to learn through strife. So I'm running a faery cleric late of age with deplurable science in a world of bigger, faster, well built provinces with an age worth of science. I told my kingdom I required no aid and only accept what is given; I never ask or post for aid.

Why? It's a sharpening philosophy. I'm outgunned in every encounter so I have to find ways to adapt and overcome. Nobody retaliates for me.

I could just set out to vulture and draw meter in my favor, but that'd bore me. The honor charts speak for themselves. When a t/m is determined to eclipse the attacker field it can be done.

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Unless you have 10 fae/whs in your kd, what's to stop the enemy from chaining them down just like every other attacker where they suffer worst cos their off specs don't give enough net to keep up with enemy chained?

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Originally Posted by emerix

Unless you have 10 fae/whs in your kd, what's to stop the enemy from chaining them down just like every other attacker where they suffer worst cos their off specs don't give enough net to keep up with enemy chained?

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Very valid point. This is a strategy game and you well know the most basic counter to chain waving is max gains. That's just macro. If we really play Utopia, in war, then these are the struggles. Just as in many theaters of war, the action balances on a needle: intel networks, propaganda, sabotage, sniper and special ops. So main battle strength isn't ignored, but it is only the behemoth. What are Hannibals Elephants without Hannibal? Without critical guidance we see many pumped war kingdoms stagger because they don't deal in what balances on the head of a needle.

To overcome a militarily superior opponent isn't difficult if the opponent isn't refined in position mechanics. It isn't hard for a t/m player to switch to attacker in an inflexible system. They just follow the chain order and go to sleep comforted that it wasn't their decision. Being a player in a flexible system allows us to learn from taking responsibility for our actions. AquaSeaFoam was an effective innovator not because he was a great mechanic, but because he was an intuitive thinker. It applies because ASF witnessed a dormant resource where most others were just refining the machine.

And what's rule #1?

1. Never read Sun Tzu.

It's an intuitive joke, but honestly I never read Sun Tzu. Learn from combatively engaging those who have and those who haven't. You can tell who his students are when you face them.

What does this have to do with faery attackers? I've done it before, I did it last age and I'll do it again this age if The Feary Circle is reignited. I perceive provinces in triangles. Essentially you have magic, military and sabotage with each side of the triangle proportional to their strength and weakness. My basic strategy as a player is nw/acre zone supremacy which plugs in nicely to most kingdom strats. What I can't accomplish with one aspect of the triangle, I'll attempt to accomplish with another. Amplify the philosophy, that a collective of 10 faery will pressure the path of least resistance in 10 of the enemy provinces. This is how you form the zone, protect your top and supply your chained.

Chaining in most kingdom strategies is tantamount to an army spearhead with weak flanks. If you max against a chain in the heart of their nw cluster you can establish zone domination in one wave. The build characteristics of faery are fundamentally balanced if anemic due to mild nerfing. Still this lends itself to methodical leveling of ones enemies. All faery wars are Longview boulevard.

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Originally Posted by StratOcastle

Very valid point. This is a strategy game and you well know the most basic counter to chain waving is max gains. That's just macro. If we really play Utopia, in war, then these are the struggles. Just as in many theaters of war, the action balances on a needle: intel networks, propaganda, sabotage, sniper and special ops. So main battle strength isn't ignored, but it is only the behemoth. What are Hannibals Elephants without Hannibal? Without critical guidance we see many pumped war kingdoms stagger because they don't deal in what balances on the head of a needle.

To overcome a militarily superior opponent isn't difficult if the opponent isn't refined in position mechanics. It isn't hard for a t/m player to switch to attacker in an inflexible system. They just follow the chain order and go to sleep comforted that it wasn't their decision. Being a player in a flexible system allows us to learn from taking responsibility for our actions. AquaSeaFoam was an effective innovator not because he was a great mechanic, but because he was an intuitive thinker. It applies because ASF witnessed a dormant resource where most others were just refining the machine.

And what's rule #1?

1. Never read Sun Tzu.

It's an intuitive joke, but honestly I never read Sun Tzu. Learn from combatively engaging those who have and those who haven't. You can tell who his students are when you face them.

What does this have to do with faery attackers? I've done it before, I did it last age and I'll do it again this age if The Feary Circle is reignited. I perceive provinces in triangles. Essentially you have magic, military and sabotage with each side of the triangle proportional to their strength and weakness. My basic strategy as a player is nw/acre zone supremacy which plugs in nicely to most kingdom strats. What I can't accomplish with one aspect of the triangle, I'll attempt to accomplish with another. Amplify the philosophy, that a collective of 10 faery will pressure the path of least resistance in 10 of the enemy provinces. This is how you form the zone, protect your top and supply your chained.

Chaining in most kingdom strategies is tantamount to an army spearhead with weak flanks. If you max against a chain in the heart of their nw cluster you can establish zone domination in one wave. The build characteristics of faery are fundamentally balanced if anemic due to mild nerfing. Still this lends itself to methodical leveling of ones enemies. All faery wars are Longview boulevard.

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Sorry Strato, it seems I quoted wrongly as I meant to reply to Crease.

No need to apologize. Your post was considered a valid question. My answers will be somewhat muddled because my mind works in blobs. People who can translate intuitive machinations into hard math and architecture are born leaders. I'm too far in the other camp to draw out formulas, and thus not lead.

Well..
If oow and you are in **** kd, dont play non-attacker.
If not **** kd, and war. Well at least have enough defense that it makes them waste time chaining.

In general, pure TM is bull**** in my opinion.