Is it a good or bad idea? Will it make my nw/a to high or what?
Opinions please
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Is it a good or bad idea? Will it make my nw/a to high or what?
Opinions please
Too high is never good.
When you get to the point where you will have to spend millions of bpa to raise your sci 1%, then you should begin to think about changing direction.
I think a good balance of all sciences equally is good...
Yeah
As a gnome i plan to pump a little pop science but not too much (will try to be even in about all science cat)
Lots and lots, then some. You need VERY high science levels before NW is a significant drawback, and gnomes benefit more than others from Housing sci because they get a natural multiplier on it.
There's never enough pop sci :p
Emoticons have gone ?!?! \:D/
Science per see is not a big factor in raising NW. If you leave the increase in pop as peasants, you can decrease banks, increase war buildings, and have better BE. That's more than fair compensation for the extra net worth from science.
If any race benefits from pop sci, it's gnomes. I'm running an artisan gnome and after my science pump will be at 37pop./acre, which means I can rape anyone in TPA and WPA, while still maintaining dpa and a good BE.
This is a very good question. The answer depends on how big your military is. Remember pop science adds a lot to nw/a for a few reasons 1. science adds networht just by its self. 2 it add people and people add to networth 3. the bigger population the more likely one is to make there military bigger. Bigger military mean more net worth. If one has a super big army one does not want to us science. I will use my province as an example I'm playing gnome this age. My MOD military is running at 99%. I have no science because if I did that would make my net/a too high. See it all depends on your strategy and what that strategy calls for to work correctly.
There is no such a thing like too much pop sci.
thats a bad strategy :s you are forgetting one key element in this equation. while getting pop sci increases your army and therefor it increases your networth - IT INCREASES YOUR ARMY. you now have more troops to attack/defend with. pop sci is pretty much vital, and you can never have too much.
Definitely can never have too much pop sci as a gnome. I completely disagree with vines.
vines' strategy is about as sound as trying to cross a highway by somersaulting blindfolded. It might work, but you can usually find better alternatives.
I understand why you are :S. It is hard to explain through only using words. I will use my province as an example when using science as a gnome would not work as well.
The Province of Red Mist (??:??)
[http://www.utopiatemple.com Angel v1.92 Beta]
[Posted by: Red Mist]
Server: World of Legends (Age 40)
Utopian Date: January 9th, YR3 (57% in the day)
RL Date: August 29th, 2008 (14:34 GMT)
Ruler Name: Lord Blood Shed ?
Personality & Race: ?, Gnome
Land: 1,149 Acres
Money: 1,716,691gc (35,848gc daily income)
Food: 76,777 bushels
Runes: 23,438 runes
Population: 40,214 citizens (35.00 per Acre)
Peasants: 15,620 (100% Building Efficiency)
Trade Balance: -4,069gc (0% tax rate)
ME+Stance (no spells): 92.5% off. / 120.28% def.
RawMilitaryEff. 94.4%
Soldiers: 6,235 (59.3% estimated draft rate)
Halflings: 0
Pikemen: 1,030 (6,194 defense)
Golems: 11,988 (55,447 offense / 72,094 defense)
War-Horses: 3,750 (up to 3,469 additional offense)
Prisoners: 0
Total Modified Offense: 64,683 (56.30 per Acre)
Practical (50% elites): 36,960 (32.17 per Acre)
Total Modified Defense: 85,787 (74.66 per Acre)
Practical (50% elites): 49,740 (43.29 per Acre)
Thieves: 4,595 (4.00 per Acre / 100% Stealth)
Wizards: 746 (0.65 per Acre / 84% Mana)
Crystal-Ball on your province will show:
Max. Possible Thieves/Wizards: 6,458 (5.62 / Acre)
Estimated Thieves Number: 2,583 (2.25 per Acre)
Estimated Wizards Number: 969 (0.84 per Acre)
** Networth Table: **
Total Networth: 181,459gc (157.93 per Acre)
Golems: 62,937gc (35%) - [5.25gc]
Land (90% built): 58,599gc (32%) - [15+40gc]
Thieves: 18,380gc (10%) - [4gc]
Peasants: 15,620gc (9%) - [1gc]
Soldiers: 9,352gc (5%) - [1.5gc]
Pikemen: 5,150gc (3%) - [5gc]
Science (estimated): 4,470gc (2%) - [1/92gc]
Wizards: 2,984gc (2%) - [4gc]
War Horses: 2,250gc (1%) - [0.6gc]
Money: 1,717gc (1%) - [1/1000gc]
Buildings: 1,045gc to build, 637gc to raze
Away bonus: 78,100gc (12h) / 234,300gc (20h)
Science Intelligence on Red Mist (??:??)
[Generated by Utopiapimp]
[Posted by: Red Mist]
Source: Utopia Angel, 1.92 Beta
Server: WoL (January 8, YR3)
Ruler Name: Blood Shed
Personality: ?
Race: Gnome
** Effects summary **
+0% Income (0 points)
+0% Building Effectiveness (0 points)
+0% Population Limits (0 points)
+0% Food Production (0 points)
+0% Gains in Combat (0 points)
+0% Thievery Effectiveness (0 points)
+0% Magic Effectiveness & Rune Production (0 points)
As one can see if I use science that will take money and will make my military only bigger which is not a good thing because for many reasons. The science adds to networth wich I don't want and pop science makes my army bigger which I do not want. I'm drafting 4,000 more troops once I do that I will train them into elites and that will make my Net Worth go up a lot. However, the province with the same networth when I get done building my military will be bigger in land and they millitary will be weaker because they have science. So as one can plainly see for the type of strategy I working I don't want any science. I'm not going to tell you how I'm doing it. Masters must not give answers away be rather give others insight.
Are you a troll or do you seriously have nfi how this game works? =P
If your objective is to be really really sure that you won't have your sci farmed, I think you're on the right track.
What does "nfi" mean?
It's not that rather the fact that when I'm done building my military around 97% of my daily income will go to military wages dude to the size of my military, I won't have enough money to buy books. And why use science if one doesn't need it? Not learning sciences will save me money and time.
LOL, this guy was in my kingdom a few ages ago posting the same crap he's posting here. After we started killing him, he accused of us being jealous at how much stronger his province was compared to ours.
CheeseMelts mate if you recall and it DOES seem like you are. I was the only Baron in the kingdom by the second year and we had not even gone hostile on any one. That age by the 2 year I had over 30 attacks under my belt average opponant size 100% never retelled. It was only one guy that attacked me in our kingdom so I left. I had gained around 1000 acres by the second year purely through attacking. I did not explore one acre. And Few of the guys in the kingdom even stood up for me and said I had skills they said it was shocking. Enough said.
Your skills are shocking ? lol
I would be very shocked if you were any good, so yeah in a way....
You're hilarious. It looks like we weren't the only ones to kill you off.
In my kingdom we killed you off pretty early because you couldn't keep up with the rest of us, refused to cooperate, and made a lot of arrogant/stupid posts like you're doing now. Nice to see you're still as delusional as ever.
I just take a look at the numbers of the cb I posted of the province I'm playing this age. It is plain to see. And yeah that's what a few of there guys said. One guy got mad because I said you can grow faster through attacks than exploring. I caught up to the guy from being 1/4 his size and was going to pass him so the dude attacked me when I was double tapping some dude. Simple as that. CheeseMelts yeah right bull****, I remember the kingdom yeah it was one province that attacked me and yeah it was early on start of the 2year.
HOLY CRAP! You remember me double tapping you ~2-4 weeks after the age started? I think you were an orc/mystic running a 30% draft rate and you were bragging how strong your province was. I felt bad for killing you since you really seemed like a stubborn newbie. But I'm glad it didn't deter you from pursuing your godly ways. =)
This age I'm a gnome. If I'm going to double tap playing as orc it would have to be orc warrior. Can't DT with orc mystic, well that is, I can't do it as orc mystic.
I am have been. One age allowed for the orc/mystic to be super strong. However, the age me and the other dude are talking about I was an orc warrior. This was the age when orcs had 0 cost for draft and 0 bonus from honor. The fallowing age they change it to what it is now.
Alright, I'm going to bite. If you just put Minimal research up, your investment will be returned to you in a very short period of time and will lead to both stronger net economy, military, thieves and wizards. Feel free to try prove that statement wrong.
Everything you said is correct. It is not about being right or wrong. It is about evaluating effects of one’s actions in terms of the affects on the province. My province is 1154acres lets see how 5,000 books would affect my net worth.
(5,000books)[(100*.0092gc)] -----> (5,000books)[(.92)] = +4,600gc to net worth. 5,000books = +2% to max population. My max population is around 40,800. (40,000)(.02) = 800 more people. ~80%-90% of those people will go into my military. 60% of the 80%-90% will go into elite units. The other 20%-30% will going into thieves and wizards. 60% of 800 is 480 new elite units. (480elite units)(5.25gc) = +2,520gc to net worth. Now add the other 20%-30% of thieves and wizards would come out to around another +1,700gc to net worth. Add them together that comes out to 4,220gc to net worth. Now add 4,600gc to 4,220gc = 8,820gc to net worth. Now that doesn’t seem too bad however what happens when I’m double the size I’m now? Instead of adding only +8,820gc it will be more like +17,640gc. And what happens when I get to 4k+ acres that 2% to population will add around 35,280gc to my net worth. All that from just one science. So when I get to 4kacres and above my military will be much strong then the provinces my size yet I will be hundred of thousands of net worth less than them.
It comes down to the style of play one likes. I like to make my military super strong while keeping my networth very low.
Vines: Science adds a miniscule amount of nw to your province and in almost every case it is worth getting more science. The real question with how much sci a prov should have depends on what level they can maintain throughout the age. Gnomes should be able to steal enough gold OOW to maintain accelerated (or even intensive) levels for most of the age without the use of banks.
A gnome without pop, crime, or tools sci is going to get eaten alive by a decent player. My prov is at 175nw/a but has 12 mod tpa, 75 mod opa, while leaving 40 dpa at home (in fortified).
That is not true. I don't have science there is no gnome my size that can match me when I'm in my war stance. I'm thinking about making my 9MODtpa. pretty good numbers. I would like to see how we would fair against one another.
Dude *looks at the ground and shakes his*
100 is the same 1. And 1/92 just means .92.
I'll break it down.
A hundredth in decimal form looks like this .01. A hundredth in fraction form looks like this 1/100. So if the science formula is this 1/92gc. In decimal form 1/92gc looks like this
.0092.
However we do not even need a formula. The one in the fraction “1/92gc” represents one book. So for every book you learn 92% of that book is related into net worth. 92% of 1 is .92. So for every book one learns .92gc will be added to one’s net worth. Now all one has to do to figure out how much net worth his or her science will add is: .92 * the number of books he or she has.
FYI: .01gc would make the amount of net gained from science even more.
P.s. I edited the post Mike Tyson quoted because I found a mistake. lol
vines, your logic is screwed. 1/92=~0.01.
NW for one book is 1*1/92=1*0.01=0.01.
In your splendid example up there, you got to the conclusion that 5k books=4,6k NW. This is completely rubbish. 5000*1/92=5000*0.01=50.
So at 4k acres, according to your fabulous example, that is a whopping 200 nw. NOOO! Im dying out of fatness!
I never did 5000*1/92. If you wanted to do that you would have to put it in this form 1/5000*1/92. By the way 1*1/92 = .92.
And this 1*1/92=1*.01=.01 is a bunch of bulls**t you made up.
I'm going to say this one more time. The one in "1/92gc" represents one book. So for every book you learn 92% of that book is related into net worth. 92% of 1 is .92. So for every book one learns .92gc will be added to one’s net worth. Now all one has to do to figure out how much net worth his or her science will add is: .92 * the number of books he or she has.
Either you are bullsh**ing me or you really don't understand.
vines, can you do me a favour? Open up the calculator, or if you cannot find this bull****-program that i just imagine exists, use http://www.google.com.
Found it? Great! Now please enter 1/92 (for google, just copy/paste if you cannot find the buttons). Can you tell me the answer?
No you didnt, thats wherein the fault lies.Quote:
Originally Posted by vines
Vines if you can't do elementary math then don't post in the forums, you'll just confuse people who are here to actually learn.
Saying that 1/92 = 0.92 shows that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Rather than continuing to defend your erroneous position why don't you listen to the advice of others who clearly know better?