A request to the Admins. Protect interests of larger KDs.

I am not from a big badass KD, but since Utopia is a game for all I request the admins to pay attention to this issue I am facing here:

Around a week ago, one of our provinces randomed into a small KD. It was an abduct worth 0 scientists. The guy retaled for land, taking away a good amount since our KD was larger. Obviously, we hit back, with one or two hits, that equalled the amount of land taken. A message was sent to the province that we have no interest in engaging into a fight with a province we cannot war.

The query was answered quite rudely, and with a condition of getting more hits on us for an all age CF. Obviously, we denied the very concept of all age CF. Since our gains were evened out on both sides at this point, I called it a fair deal to stop hits and go for a CF for 2 weeks max, 48 hr notice, if he wishes it.

The proposal was denied, with more hits from them. This pissed us off and we decided to raze this particular guy since he was constantly hitting us when we were searching for wars. We did not want to PK him, just put him out of range of our provinces so that it becomes worse for him to hit us than not hit us. Moreover, since the other provinces in his KD were quite huge, and with our moderate activity, we were pretty sure we can't PK them all, when they joined in.

Long story short, We brought him down, out of range. He went into vacation for a few days. Attacks stopped after this from our side, while they maintained spell cover on us constantly. We re-tried for a CF agreement, but due to their atrocious demands, could not accept it.

Finally, we thought this charade had ended and entered into a war. Within 24 hr of our WAR start, this guy suddenly turns out of vacation and his KD starts razing us into our war. They have as of now PK'd one of our chained provinces. Now as we all know, interfering with wars is not something that we respect in Utopia. My request to the admins is to take necessary actions against this KD. Since we are not to disclose KD locations here, please suggest a way we can share info with you.

i hate to say it but sux to be you. admins wont do anything and your kd screwed up on diplomacy and are eating the fruits of your labors. Whats happening does suck, it does seem unfair, but theres nothing inherently wrong/against the rules with whats being done.

Your best 3 options are 1. eoa cf with that kd for basically whatever terms they want. 2. start pking them one at a time over and over. Eventually they'll get tired of dieing and ask for a cf. 3. get an outside kd to help you. have that kd engage the kd hiting into your war and hope it doesnt cost u a loss.

So basically hitting into others' wars is not against rules?

PS: I would love to hear an Admin's reply to this question. Also, I know 90% of the answers to this question will be "bad diplomacy", when the fact of the matter is, any KD in our spot would have done what we did. You don't bow down to a smaller KD without gains, let alone losses on your side. The PK system is too restrictive to prevent a large KD from protecting themselves against smaller ones, if tthey decide to be a pest. If our diplomacy, was still bad, I would much prefer to be in a small KD from next age and pester bigger KDs now on, despite getting PK'd again and again, coz obviously, if I get PK'd they wont know my new location but I will do theirs.

nope, perfectly legit. they suffer a -75% gains effect from doing so though.

"one of our provinces randomed into a small KD"

"since the other provinces in his KD were quite huge"

lol...

Remember here that the goal here is not gains, but the opponent's losses.
-75% gain on a chained province of ours amounted to 15 acres per hit. Took 12 hits to PK him once he was ~200 acres.

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Originally Posted by AnonymousBoy

PS: I would love to hear an Admin's reply to this question. Also, I know 90% of the answers to this question will be "bad diplomacy", when the fact of the matter is, any KD in our spot would have done what we did. You don't bow down to a smaller KD without gains, let alone losses on your side. The PK system is too restrictive to prevent a large KD from protecting themselves against smaller ones, if tthey decide to be a pest. If our diplomacy, was still bad, I would much prefer to be in a small KD from next age and pester bigger KDs now on, despite getting PK'd again and again, coz obviously, if I get PK'd they wont know my new location but I will do theirs.

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The only "admin" is bishop and im pretty sure he wont post here. For what its worth i do feel for you, last age my kd had something similar to you, we litterally had a guy learn/raze us into wars from year 5 to the end of the age. We suspect he was running 4 provs at one point because he went from a 1 prov kd to a 4 prov kd to try to pk us in war. We spent 4 days pking his provs over and over (6-7 times each), untill he gave up went into other kds then learned us x2, we'd cf that kd, he'd defect and learn us x2 again. we had to cf 9 kds before he couldnt defect into a kd we didnt already have a cf with.

Grand total we ate 95 learns and 140 razes from a single player last age. I asked around to other kds leaders, and even emailed support. I got "hes not cheating, and while annoying doesnt break the rules" from support and the suggestion to cf every kd he defecting into from other kd leaders. Again it sux, but the game is setup specifically to make you have to deal with people like this.

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Originally Posted by AnonymousBoy

Remember here that the goal here is not gains, but the opponent's losses.
-75% gain on a chained province of ours amounted to 15 acres per hit. Took 12 hits to PK him once he was ~200 acres.

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yes i know, its still 75% reduced damage on you via raze untill they hit the min raze damage of 15 acres/hit.

Bishop is doubtful to post in here. You screwed up and left a few pissed off poeple and could not solve it diplomatically. So now, expect to eat as much as they dish out. It might make or break your war. It might continue in every war all age long.

There's a difference between "against the rules" and just being annoying. If you were on the other side of this, would you think its fair if 'action' was taken against you for simply retaliating in the scenario of diplomacy breakdown ?

How would you tackle this issue with a blanket rule to prevent this if you were running the game ?

I don't know, Bishop might post, but if he does, you can bet it'll be an unhelpful tongue-in-cheek remark...

Bottom line here is that this is a gameplay issue, not a 'rules' issue. Game mechanics are set up in such a way that hitting into wars is possible, and legal, but not very advantageous. Nobody can be forced to make peace with you, or stop attacking you, etc. Welcome to Utopia.

There are, however, cultural norms. Hitting into a war is VERY significantly frowned upon by other *players* (not the admins, per se), and is something that your Kingdom's friends and allies might be willing and able to help with - because there are lots of people around willing to 'punish' that kind of conduct, and relatively few willing to defend it. (At least, not unless the Kingdom at issue is particularly powerful.)

When you're getting outside hits in a war, calling in outside help is a fair call. (To be clear, not here. Don't start posting locations around here to get assistance. But hopefully folks in your Kingdom have other connections.) Either his Kingdom is okay with him hitting into a war, in which case they deserve to share in the beating that follows such a thing, or they aren't, and should be willing to CF with you to put an end to the conflict.

If you didnt want a prolonged conflict you shouldn't retalled the retal. You thought you could bully the smaller kingdom into submission just cause you were bigger.

I have to handle a bunch of you guys on regular basis. Some even fabricate lies to justify their bullying.

Always retal the rental, Korp

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Originally Posted by Korp

If you didnt want a prolonged conflict you shouldn't retalled the retal. You thought you could bully the smaller kingdom into submission just cause you were bigger.

I have to handle a bunch of you guys on regular basis. Some even fabricate lies to justify their bullying.

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Wait what!? Lies!? Please contact me asap I have to maintain fairplay standards on this server. Your enemy is mine Korp!

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Originally Posted by Binar

Always retal the rental, Korp

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I don't know what you talkin about...

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Originally Posted by Korp

I don't know what you talkin about...

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Low blow!

This is why you have to quote posts against the craftier forum warriors sometimes.