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Thread: honor combo

  1. #16
    I like to post MorbidAngel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maigoh View Post
    Best race/personality to gain/keep honour is human/rogue as uberthief.

    NO. U don't have mage part and therefore no additional honor taken from that (u will have 50% less potential then T/M DE). As for saving honor it is good, but u won't have honor to save..

    Quote Originally Posted by Bishop View Post
    DEs keep honor? fail. DEs are ridiculously easy to take honor from. You can either hit them (and most DEs dont run hospitals so their expensive def dies real fast) to take their honor and drop them out of nw range so they cant get it back, or massacre them and then just op their honor away. Elves have clear sight and reflect magic as well as -50% troop loss, takes more to chain them and even if you massacre them a lot they have spells that make you basically auto-fail on them.
    Well, I am talking about individual honor whoring prov in kd. Considering those terns DE is far more better than Elf. DE got more def at same unit/building numbers and no runes needed (and therefore more space, 20%+ more space). That's enough to be better than elf. Ofc, in honor whoring kd things are different.
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  2. #17
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    The Province of The Fallen (X:X)
    [http://www.utopiatemple.com Angel v1.91 Beta]

    Server: Genesis #18
    Utopian Date: January 19th, YR3 (72% in the day)
    RL Date: August 2nd, 2008 (0:13 GMT)

    Ruler Name: The Wealthy Lord Rem
    Personality & Race: The Merchant, Dwarf
    Land: 1,937 Acres
    Money: 853,278gc (68,660gc daily income)
    Food: 333,296 bushels
    Runes: 18,060 runes
    Population: 49,423 citizens (25.52 per Acre)
    Peasants: 20,812 (115% Building Efficiency)
    Trade Balance: -492,480gc (0% tax rate)
    Networth: 271,992 (140.42 per Acre)
    Thieves+Wizards+Science Networth: 11,256gc

    Military Eff. with Stance: 126.17% off. / 112.94% def.
    Soldiers: 3,167 (55% estimated draft rate)
    Warriors: 5,026 (31,707 offense)
    Axemen: 10,602 (59,870 defense)
    Berserkers: 7,337 (55,543 offense / 49,719 defense)
    War-Horses: 5,520 (up to 6,965 additional offense)
    Prisoners: 560 (2,120 offense)

    Total Modified Offense: 100,330 (51.80 per Acre)
    Practical (50% elites): 72,554 (37.46 per Acre)
    Total Modified Defense: 113,165 (58.42 per Acre)
    Practical (50% elites): 88,302 (45.59 per Acre)

    Thieves: 1,033 (0.53 per Acre / 100% Stealth)
    Wizards: 1,446 (0.75 per Acre / 100% Mana)

    Crystal-Ball on your province will show:
    Max. Possible Thieves/Wizards: 2,814 (1.45 / Acre)
    Estimated Thieves Number: 1,126 (0.58 per Acre)
    Estimated Wizards Number: 422 (0.22 per Acre)

    Province is at WAR! (-75% gains and effectiveness)

    Buildings: 0gc to build, 834gc to raze
    Away bonus: 104,060gc (12h) / 312,180gc (20h)
    An individual honour whoring province cannot go bewond viscout... maybe only if you manage to be the biggest province in your kingdom and playing t/m... maybe... any attacker will break you will get you one title lower.
    Last edited by Phoenix; 01-08-2008 at 23:51. Reason: Locations

  3. #18
    Postaholic clarey's Avatar
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    If I was playing in a ghetto indeed I'd go elf/rogue TM. Basically I wouldn't bother with attacking since their attack times would be so staggered that you can't rely sending out later than your kingdom to avoid getting hit. And once you get hit, bye bye honor.

    Definitely agree with Bishop though about DEs keeping honor, they are possibly the best to whore honor with due to their 0 runes cost however they aren't the best at keeping it. Numbers wise it may not be logical but there it is.
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  4. #19
    I like to post MorbidAngel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by puppy101 View Post
    If I was playing in a ghetto indeed I'd go elf/rogue TM. Basically I wouldn't bother with attacking since their attack times would be so staggered that you can't rely sending out later than your kingdom to avoid getting hit. And once you get hit, bye bye honor.

    Definitely agree with Bishop though about DEs keeping honor, they are possibly the best to whore honor with due to their 0 runes cost however they aren't the best at keeping it. Numbers wise it may not be logical but there it is.
    DE/Rogue T/M owns Elf/Rogue T/M.

    Because:
    1) DE got 17% more def at start (both are going full def army)
    2) DE got 10% stronger thievery and 25% stronger magic (and therefore less raw wpa/tpa is required to get same numbers so DE can have either more income or higher wpa/tpa or higher def than Elf)
    3) DE got No Runes Req special. That is one of most important things in ghettos. In ghettos, and even in mid range kds, Elf T/Ms will just have a hard time to get enough runes for casting spells (so, +1% mana is kinda hard to maintain). And if u plan stealing runes, then u just wasted T part of T/M. No towers give DE big advantage cos they can run more Homes (for higher income and more troops), more Forts (for higher def and/or dropping raw dpa), more Dens (more tpa, less loses), more banks (for aiding and quick retraining of thieves)..

    My kd is mid range, we tried both Elf/Rogue and DE/Rogue as T/M in different ages (same ppl, both times they had 6/6 raw wpa/tpa) and they did a lot better as DE.
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  5. #20
    Forum Fanatic freemehul's Avatar
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    maigoh doesn't take into his calculations the fact that he is non attacker and as such worthless to his kingdom. ergo when his kingdom loses in the war, those attackers are going rape his honor

    no sense in getting forts then as they'll be razed to the ground.

    superthief is the sux

    elf rogue hybrid ftw, but if you're in a really good kingdom (like 25 hyperactive in a top 50 kingdom) you should go all DE, because then you don't have to worry about not being able to turtle. ToG means Dragons do a good job and with all attackers, who cares about the thieves. When they're out of NW range for effective thievery watch them getting pwned.

    have the larger guys raze away the forts, aid the smaller guys and watch them take out those thieves along with their honor, that with a warloss = maigoh being pwned

    Attacker > Thief
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  6. #21
    Forum Addict Toadi's Avatar
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    Dark Elf is quite weak in top Kingdoms because that is where you really have to be able to turtle. Dark Elf is much better at low size because there you usually fight people with low offense and high defense.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by cromwill View Post
    I was wondering what people think is the best combo for raping honor.

    I would think that DE rogue would be best, but since DE cant turtle they allways become a target during war. so they lose what they get from those free runes and such.


    any thoughts about how as an example a dwarf or even orc would be at gaining honor and keeping it?
    First off you can honor rape with any combo and if you are facing a skilled player they will not let you honor rape them.

    Quote Originally Posted by yoelowen View Post
    I dont think its very possible to actually keep honor as an attacker....if you have high honor people will just target you. Normally t/m is the best option for honor and as for rogue/mystic i wouldn't know which ones better.


    Next age pending changes i want to try out an a/t combo and see how well i can keep honor.
    I'm a heavy attacker this age and I'm keeping my honor is just fine. If one is skilled enough attacker is best for honor.

  8. #23
    Game Support Bishop's Avatar
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    i could not stop myself commenting on this

    Quote Originally Posted by maigoh View Post
    Best race/personality to gain/keep honour is human/rogue as uberthief.
    Ubertheives stopped working ages ago, just like super mages - hybrids are still a lot better, though TMs are becoming a lil more viable now. for the purposes of this post i will assume they work and are not, in fact, complete junk.
    Quote Originally Posted by maigoh View Post
    OOP start investing science into housing/thievery/magic, closer to mid of age you should be able to get around +8% housing, +70% thievery, and +50% magic. Throw in some random points to get +40% food, +10% income, and +6% BE and you're set. You don't need military science, you won't be attacking.
    id have that sci in like 4 days, that is terrible sci.
    Quote Originally Posted by maigoh View Post

    Build set-up in war should be:
    7% farms
    25% banks
    25% forts
    13% guilds
    3% towers
    27% TD
    you dont need banks in war
    Quote Originally Posted by maigoh View Post

    OOW:
    8% farms
    25% banks
    25% forts
    39% guilds
    3% towers

    Basically the idea is that with 25% forts you'll have around 145% defensive ME, giving you the easy option of 100+ DPA to keep your honour safe.
    100 dpa isnt safe, orc can run more opa than that easily - and any larger prov will be able to hit you - without hospitals your def wont last long.
    Quote Originally Posted by maigoh View Post
    39% guilds OOW gives you an easy 3+ wpa, accounting for human penalty and science you should have a bit over 3.5.
    um, thats crap. any prov will be able to op you - you need more sci.
    Quote Originally Posted by maigoh View Post

    Run a 60% draft, and throw all your non-dspec military into thieves, and you'll come out with 12+ mod tpa.
    20 mod is better, 12 is meh
    Quote Originally Posted by maigoh View Post
    Math:
    +8% pop = 27 ppa
    100DPA on 145% DME = 11.5 dspecs per acre
    60% draft = 16.2 military @ 27 ppa
    Therefore, 4.7 raw tpa.
    Add in science bonus and TD bonus (~30% gives you +60% effectiveness and -80% losses) and you get 12.8 TPA, which will be enough to rip through the best hybrids and many pure TMs.

    Your 3+ modWPA will give you decent enough defense against magic, and as long as you don't LLed heavily (which is hard on 3+ WPA) then you won't lose too much honour, while you can just honour whore with Propaganda.
    so ya, really bad strat. your number are way off what they shuld be as your sci is weak. youd be better off running a/t with a human anyway. human magic penalty though makes it harder for them to whore honor - its too easy to mage it away.

    edit: and to those saying de get honor better than elf, they do - they dont keep it though. <3 rm and cs. elves can adjust their def to get unbreakable as they have def on their elites - des cant, you also dont need to waste stealth somming a DE whereas you do to an elf, enemies have less stealth = less ops on you, and when you have cs + rm that means more honor ftw
    Last edited by Bishop; 28-08-2008 at 12:47.
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  9. #24
    I like to post MorbidAngel's Avatar
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    with 6/6 wpa/tpa raw not like anyone is gonna op u anyway. RM and CS is good, but not needed when enemies have <10% success rate against u. Yes, elves CAN adjust def but, at same PPA, DE can have potentially more def than elf..
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  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by MorbidAngel View Post
    with 6/6 wpa/tpa raw not like anyone is gonna op u anyway. RM and CS is good, but not needed when enemies have <10% success rate against u. Yes, elves CAN adjust def but, at same PPA, DE can have potentially more def than elf..
    well, if we assume that elves and des have sufficient tm def, that leaves resilience to attacks - elves have less losses, means they can hit longer and due to their def lasting better prolly get hit less. i'd pick elf over de myself simply cos they hold the honor better once they get it. and yes, des are a 6/6 army, elves 6/5 - but elves can turtle if needed which is ftw when you want to turn unbreakable to hold your honor :) its not that DEs suck or anything, just that elves are better.
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  11. #26
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    To clarify one thing, I personally hate DE.

    Also, u will agree with me that attacker cannot get as much honor as T/M can as solo honor whoring prov. So, attacker part is out. With same raw tpa/wpa values (DE can get higher mods thou) DE haves 0/6 army and Elf got 0/5. That is 17% more def.

    And ofc this is ideal case if DE got gold for full leet and elf got enough runes for casting spells.
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  12. #27
    Game Support Bishop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MorbidAngel View Post
    To clarify one thing, I personally hate DE.

    Also, u will agree with me that attacker cannot get as much honor as T/M can as solo honor whoring prov. So, attacker part is out. With same raw tpa/wpa values (DE can get higher mods thou) DE haves 0/6 army and Elf got 0/5. That is 17% more def.

    And ofc this is ideal case if DE got gold for full leet and elf got enough runes for casting spells.
    nein! i disagree that an attacker cant get as much honor :p it takes a tm a while to get that honor, attackers, if they attack smart, can get more honor a lot fast, then the elves turtle up ftw ;)
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  13. #28
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    Bishop knows what he is talking about. MorbidAngel that's just because you don't know any better. I'm playing heavy attacker. My province has 6.2tpamod and 1rawwpa(trying to get it to 4). And I have over 120opa/dpa. How are you going to get my honor? Attackers have to be smart in order to get honor.

  14. #29
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    Vines stop posting in these forums. You continue to show that you don't know the basics of the game and you will just confuse people. It astounds me that you could seriously ask how people could take your honor when you have 1 wpa...Furthermore, with 6 mod tpa (which is low for an A/t or a t/m) you'd have a hard time propping anyone. Any decent t/m could op you for all your honor, both through thievery and magic. When you are running 12-15 mod tpa come back and give advice on how to horde honor.

    The basic fact is that attackers cannot get high honor (count or above) unless the whole kingdom has high honor. Attackers will always have a thief or magic weakness, and t/ms will exploit that to rape their honor.

  15. #30
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    Umm bro I'm going to have 6rawtpa soon. And I'm not a t/ms I'm an attack. Rawtpa protects well. Say someone has 8modtpa but only has 4raw and I have 6raw(not counting the +50%) my town will still be protected. Because damage is based on rawtpa.

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