Roleplayer's Message Board

[Geco]

I've talked with you a bit about this already GI, but I'll say it again (as I know I'm one of those GMs that lets the threads they create die). The simple fact is most of us are here because writing and stories interest us, it's not a profession, it's a hobby and an escape. Part of the reason I give up on threads is for the exact reason you are frustrated - you feel an obligation to keep posting for the people that joined and soon it feels more like a job than something you enjoy doing.

I'm not assigning blame, just pointing out from my own experience. I think we're seeing a trend with trying to get the players more involved with the story when they join, but I don't know how frequently that happens. I think too much reliance is placed on the GM to keep the story going, and the players, frankly, don't adequately contribute to plot development.

I just started posting in Furious, but after reading the entire thing I can safely say (no offense intened SoHee, Ren and Kain) that the plot in that thread was going nowhere once Ark stopped posting for awhile. Did they keep it afloat, yes which is a feat in itself, but no plots were added that they, as players, could play out themselves rather than rely on Ark to come up with something for them. It could be the case where they simply got stuck on a scene and did have things coming up, but I've just joined and in 3 posts created an entirely new story arc that we can play through.

I guess this is me ranting back at my frustrations of rpers who can expect so much from a GM all the while contributing very little in return.

GI, I'm not sure if you have GM'd, I hadn't for the longest time, but I would say if you want threads to be run a certain way, then why not do it yourself. You might fail, as I have on several occasions, but you ultimately learn and hopefully try to improve the next time.

In other news, depending on the activity level in Furious I might post another thread soon over the weekend - I've gotten back in touch with the writer within ^_^ Nothing elaborate, just a good old fashion fantasy thread, something the whole family can enjoy.

[LordKain]

None taken whatsoever. I always welcome creative input. In fact, if you ever want to point anything about that will help improve my writing style, feel free to drop me a message.
I shall admit I've been lacking in the idea section of RPing, at least with Furious. In that thread I, personally, have taken mroe of a reaction type role, though I've been focusing on character development and bringing things to a certain goal. Not good for plot development, but it works I guess *shrugs*
I know part of the issue as well was when Desole was made. We all flocked to there as well. It worked with use posting in both at first, but then things slowed for Furious, and they have done so with Desole as well. Desole is a bit different, and I think you would see things working better plot-wise. I think the first person POV helps with that.
I know the slow-down is cause of RL stuff, which doesn't bother me much. I have been taken several days to put together my posts for each of my characters, so that gives me time to think and all that jazz. It's only when I get to the point that I have everything taken care of that I go 'alright, post damnit!' lol

But as for Furious, I've been tossing some minor plot-like stuff around, but nothing that will make much of a difference. I think most of my hesitation on thinking up ideas comes from:
1) Though I love the free-style RPs, I've done 'set-style' ones for so long, it's hard to break that 'GM leads all' mindset ^^
2) My issues with 'interfering' with other writer's characters. Yeah, I just hate messing with people's stuff I guess lol

But I shall endeavor to assist in enriching our RP experience. I hope it works =D


fake edit:
Mireldeyn - Yeah, I love that pic. I have dubbed that image 'Chef Face'. My step-daughter thinks it's hilarious (she's 9.8ish years old)

[Geco]

Yeah, I mean I see both sides of it. You're completely right that for the longest time this type of thing was DO NOT CROSS THE GM and they were god and they had the story all set out so you would just be a reactionary player in what was otherwise their story.

I'll call myself a proponent of the collaborative approach, where every rper not only creates characters but finds ways to develop plot points. That's why I think it's important for GMs to set the expectations - and I would say on these boards at least - take a more active role in holding the players to them e.g. I actually make a point to ask a player to think of a plot to introduce if they haven't done so.

For me, I have an idea and can give an overall environment for the story, but I don't like fully running through my ideas. I usually have something that gets things started, but don't know where it goes after, and I like it that way. I want other people to take what I've given them and build on it, then I in turn can build on top of that.

And Kain, I can try to give you some feedback, but it comes with the warning that I am no critic, I'm not a english major or expert in anyway, but just as a reader ^_^ , but I would love some from you too, it's how we get better after all. I'll use email though.

[Shari Tana]

Actually, Geco, I am :)

And in that position I can say that a story, however promising and engaging, will never succeed if the main story has no body. Please read carefully, for this seems to address many of the same issues everyone keeps talking about.

I've been an editor and a critic, among other things, and the first thing you learn is that the easiest part to writing a story is never writing the whole thing. Depending on the person, he or she may think of the beginning and have trouble formualting an end or vice versa. Some people can easliy concieve an interesting and exciting climax, but hit a block when they try to place the events leading up to and those taking place after. It's not unusual for new stories to go through these phases, but the good thing is, no matter which part of the story you concieve first, each one can lead to a general basis for the others. Often, this comes in the form of asking yourself questions, like the ones Ark posted in Desolé. What does your character want? is the same as asking yourself "What is the objective of the story?" In other words, what lesson or moral (or whatever) do you want to express? Is this a story about bravery? Compassion? Loyalty? Mabey romance? Every story has a theme or some underlying message to send to its readers. If you don't have one, you're not telling a story so much as giving a documentary.

Second, every story needs an end. Endings are nice, not the bane of all good. They leave the writers with a sense of accomplishment and that good feeling inside that their character made their fictional world a better place. Stories that don't end will just wither and die eventualy. This doesn't mean a story has to be short, by any means. If you want the players to define the world and the state it's in when the tale completes, then give yourself a very general plot with a simple objective, while keeping the theme in mind.

An example of this is: "An evil king has a crown of power and a group of heroes sets off to kill the king, free the people of his oppression and find someone worthy of bearing the crown of power." I'll break this very simple idea down. Beginning: the people are unhappy and oppressed; enter the heroes and their pasts and what brings them to Village X. Rising Action: THe heroes' quest to reach the evil kings lair/castle/whatever; great for inserting side missions that partain to the main quest. Climax: The wicked king is killed and ther heroes have the crown; perhaps some internal conflict among them to place the powerful artifact on thier own head. Falling Action: a new king is found and brought to the formally evil castle; possibly more side missions, perhaps the new king is held captive. Resolution: all hail the new king!

Despite my breaking it down, I'm sure any of you could have figured that out by yourself, but the point is, that story had a purpose, and a very basic theme (good vs. evil). Often I see threads here that are just settings. The intro describes the world around the story, and while that is an integral and essential part of the story, it is not a plot. It is, however, an excellent method of brainstorming. Put yourself in your own setting, in your character's shoes, and think of the first thing you would try to do.

I was going to remark on how side quests needed to be canon with the main story, but I realized everyone here pretty much has that under control XD

This post isn't directed at any one thread or writer, but seeing the many of the same complaints about the state of things sparked this lesson in my head. And the best part about it, is once the Exposition (the beginnign events) is complete and the quest to kill the evil king begins, the GM is pretty much hands-free, as far as controlling the Rising Action. That being said, it is the GM's resposibility, no matter how loose the threads of the story are woven, to say "It's time to stop with the side quests, and get back to the main story." Even though the quests other participants contribute are fun an interesting, there still has to be some main underlying objective. You can't just stumble out of some forest and find the evil king's castle. It's just.... tacky >.<

Well, that's all I have. I hope you take at least some of it to heart before creating a thread. I'm not trying to sound bossy, but these are integral part of any form of stroytelling, and they're the main reason some of my own ideas haven't hit the boards yet. Mostly due to a lack of a main objective. I'm the kind of person that easily thinks of a beginning :)

[Arkady]

GI,

I'm going to try and convey my message clearly and calmly without getting angry.

But here's the gist of it.

Your post makes it particularly evident that you have absolutely zero comprehension of what it takes to make a thread work. We, as GMs, are not here for your personal pleasure. We have zero obligation to make you happy or to keep you entertained. To view us as such is selfish and insolent.

We are here, devoting our very limited time and energy to string together MANY people in what I believe to be a COLLABORATIVE effort to make a story. We do not fail as GMs because *we* as a single person in a field of MANY people occasionally prioritize our educations, jobs, children and or relationships over RPing, but rather because we are infinitely ALONE in our burden to make this thread work.

If you want entertainment, you have plenty of options elsewhere. But we are not your videogames, movies, or books. The people that put their time and energy into those endeavours in making such ventures are PAID. We GMs and fellow RPers are NOT.

Now, I'm primarily very annoyed because I take RPing very seriously and I'll be damned if I am ever glad something else takes precedence. Therefore, when you make a statement like that, you're discounting whichever GMs effort has already been put into something such as this. Especially because you, as either a would-be GM or simply a fellow RPer, have never stepped up to do something similar.

I find your comments sorely disrespectful and ignorant.

---

LK, considering you mentioned my threads, I just want to put forth the reminder that I highly encourage getting over our primal fears of treading on each other's characters, or plots. In fact, I love it when it happens.

Shari, you bring up good points. I'm glad you mentioned them as they're a great reminder of things I should keep in mind as a GM.

[Jolly Rensha]

Shari, I like that you brought that out. Thank you, for myself and others. ;)

Ark - Go get em tiger. ;)

Geco - I have enough characters to handle, five is enough; I know... I only have mentioned 4 so far. I might not have to mention the 5th now that you've joined and stirred the nest a little. :) Thanks for that.

LK - Desole is losing interest with me, it's getting too heaven-based for my taste. People rarely play it off well, and it just doesn't interest me. I have too strong of religious conviction to pretend anything else. Sorry, it's not changing. ;) Furious on the other hand, I can put full attention to and feel no remorse.

GI - ... man... that was harsh. GMs start stories and look at it like it is their child most of the time. No one wants to let a thread die. No one wants to let RL get in the way of their relaxing hobby, or efforts to better oneself through imaginative self-reflection and projection. Or simply the quest to be a more effective author. I will not call you ignorant, but I will say that you hurt not only my own feelings, but doubtless many others with your statements and then attempt to say you know how it feels and what is involved. The GM states how much control he has over a thread.

When you join and s/he is saying that as a writer, stay within the limits of the main plot, but make up anything with your character, or to enhance the plot that you wish, you are 'waiving' your 'rights' to your character putting it in THEIR story and THEIR world. You are a guest in his or her imagination. If you don't like it, then you are excused. If you can have full liberty, fine. I tend to like threads with more structure.

Mainly in a loose-based style involving a focus of plot, regardless of the side-plots of the story. There are no 100% shared community values, sociology has told us this. Everyone has their own value system. Just as uniquely, our characters have primary, secondary, and infinitely numerous motivations. Where they place the main story in their hierarchy of motives is up to the player of the character. However, if you are to play the story, you must interact somehow with the main plot, directly or indirectly, or be left behind. You have to make your own way. Understand why the character would or would not be part of the story. That is my preferred method.

That doesn't mean it is the only one I play. I like Ark's ideas for threads, and the execution methods. I think he is the most creative GM as far as execution. His stories are nothing explosively new. It is the effort he asks of his players and the way he wants them to write. He's a very strict GM with a loose-based plot structure. He demands that you make your own way into the story. He not even allows you to create the main plot and story arcs, he invites and encourages you. But his rules are his rules. Do not OOC for nothing; try your hardest; and post as often as YOU CAN. He is not insensitive to the real world, for he lives in it as well as everyone else.

Perhaps, GI, you just have little grasp on greater responsibilities than fending for yourself and finishing school. Some have, as others have pointed out, children, aged parents, sick spouses, demanding jobs in a horrible economy, or countless other responsibilities and issues that come up that are frankly more important than writing on a forum.

----------

Sorry, I have used my allotted time for posting tonight in a story to posting my long overdue reply to insensitivity. (I'm one to talk, eh? I'm the king of social numbness)

[LordKain]

O snap son you just trashed one of my Desole character's objectives lol
I really didn't want to have him go join up with Ark's groups so soon haha

[Jolly Rensha]

I'm just saying that I don't like the religious aspect of it that is forming, personally. Doesn't mean I'm not going to play it. In my opinion, your character is literally crazy. ;)

[Shari Tana]

I'm thinking of Ark's character as more quasi-celestial beings than actual angels. I used to be a theology major (albeit very briefly), but I do remember learning that angels, while they possess free will, are commanded by God to not directly influence mortals. And the archangels are best described as "reigonal angelic managers" whose reigons are over certain designated land masses. Wikipedia has a ton of info on this kind of thing, and it's a really great source for researching anything you are not too familiar with since everything posted must be cited. Honestly, I used it for virtually every RP I've been a part of. Especially Star Wars and anything high-tech or based off a universe I'm not familiar with.

It makes for better writing when you do a bit of research too :)

[LordKain]

Oh! I thought you meant you were gonna stop posting in Desole :3
I hope you continue, at least for a bit. I got the idea of my character's religious aspect after what I saw from Ark. Yeah, a little idea taking there, but I tried to put my own twist. I mean, seriously, a vampire that is religious? Yes, I know Louis (Anne Rice) sorta was, but I'm taking a diff approach, as in he still believes and all that jazz. Adding the religious aspect (even in Dominic's form of it lol) is a new challenge for me, and though I am -sorta- religious myself (I have my beliefs and such), I just hope I'm not killing anything haha

As for being crazy... good! I was hoping that I was giving that impression. Marcus is, well, in a different sort of reality. Being alive for over 500 years (as a vampire, at least) will do that to ya a bit, but especially the whole Rose thing. I'm glad I achieved that at least. It should get more interesting with Rachael being there, and if our charas get to meet up. Though I'm sure both of my characters meeting Uriel is gonna be pretty exciting too haha


edit:
PS - This message was brought to you by the follow:
Too many Milk Duds
A brief break from Diablo 2 (still kicks ass)
The letter ugowuwgr;
And Chef Face!



AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HE'S COMING FOR YOU

[Arkady]

I know very little of angels. As I mentioned to Rensha, I know very little of religion. And certainly I feel a *little* bad about screwing it all up, but it wouldn't be very fun if I didn't.

Rensha knows.

With Desole, I'm really trying to create a modern mythology. Screw the whole vision of Revelations and our idea of what angels used to be. I really like beginning where things end.

Also. I love Wikipedia. I've certainly used it often for Desole.

[Shari Tana]

Waaaaaay to many Milk Duds, I think LK XD

[LordKain]

Oh you ain't seen nothingyet, Shari =D

WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Are you ready Steve? Uh-huh
Andy? Yeah
Mick? Okay
Alright fellas - let's go!
Oh it's been getting so hard
Living with the things you do to me
My dreams are getting so strange
I'd like to tell you everything I see
Oh and see a man at the back as a matter of fact
His eyes are as red as the sun
And the girl in the corner let no one ignore her
Cause she thinks she's the passionate one
Oh Yeah! It was like lightning
Everybody was fighting
And the music was soothing
And they all started grooving
CHROUS
Yeah, Yeah, Yeah-Yeah-Yeah
And the man in the back said everyone attack
And it turned into a ballroom blitz
And the girl in the corner said boy I want to warn you
It'll turn into a ballroom blitz
Ballroom blitz, ballroom blitz, ballroom blitz, ballroom blitz
Oh reaching out for something
Touching nothing's all I ever do
Oh I softly call you over
When you appear there's nothing left of you
And the man in the back is ready to crack
As he raises his hands to the sky
And the girl in the corner is everyone's woman
She could kill you with a wink of her eye
Oh Yeah! It was electric
So prefectly hectic
And the band started leaving
Cause they all stopped breathing
CHORUS Repeat
Guitar Solo
Oh Yeah! It was like lightning
Everybody was fighting
And the music was soothing
And they all started grooving
CHORUS Repeat
It's it's a ballroom blitz
It's it's a ballroom blitz
It's it's a ballroom blitz
Yeah, it's a ballroom blitz

[Arkady]

Rensha, I just read your post in Desole. WTF? Benjamin Button much?

[LordKain]

lol I forgot about that reference. I need to see that movie :3

edit: damn you for going to Georgia, Ren *shakes fist* lol
Oh, and what do you prefer for talking OOC, email?