To Cheat or not to Cheat

[funnylumpy]

I know there is a long long topic already regarding trading and making it legitimate.

Here is how I see the future of utopia if OMAC should have any chance at all to stop people from fleeing the game.

We all know that the top 100 and many more has fully traded kd's.

They kill off those who're

- not willing to follow the rules (usually very strict)
- be dominated by the monarch
- hand over account info so the monarch can incase he/she wants abuse it
- just give them the account most common used threat..

I've landed on several occasions in top kd's and the last option was most of the time used. Since they cannot send you a direct give me your account call in utopia they will use other means which is not linked to their province.
If they don't get you to sign up for irc or other chat/messenger they kill you off anyway.

So how does these guys escape this?
Yeah it's easy basically since most cheater uses proxy then delete cookie and then log in with their another account..

The worst thing is that to gain an even better upper hand we got many kd's x-logging meaning that one or several in a kd got access to most a bunch if not all provinces.

So how can we make things more fair?

1

1st of all to deal with x-logging only thing is to make it a rule that you need a static ip adress to play if it ever change unless you give OMAC a good reason why your account is deleted.

Possible danger with this is that many is playing through proxy servers and cheats and no longer has the advantage and a lot of players quits.. but this will be mostly cheaters anyway.

2

Since trading is not allowed the same goes as above the account can never change e-mail adress or ip adress unless good reason are presented. In most cases most people stick with their regular mail adress and play from one location so none of this should be to hard to make happens.

Again possible danger that lots of cheaters quit because they cannot cheat anymore.

3

The easiest to make come through is to do as in genesis that the kd reshuffle every age so you remove the edge super kd's that has been playing along for 10+ ages to stay together.

Possible danger loss of a greater amount of both cheaters and regular players because people like to stay together with people they like.

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These are the only 3 things I believe OMAC might consider the 3rd as the most likely one.

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4

Optional but a bit extra programming needed.
Allow people to join a selected kingdom to join up with friends currently playing.
You get 2 option when you create a province you either select random kd then you can jump right into play. or the other option select a specific kd which in turn notifies the monarch of that kd about you and he/she jas the option to accept the province if room or reject if it's a stranger this will give the "applying" province 1-2 days to be accepted or end up in a random kd.

Possible danger with this is that multies and x-logging would be more frequent and thus the only way to actually handle this is to request that all players play from fixed ip. If they're using proxy they can go to settings and change this.

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As it is now it's not fair play and yeah I could always quit and play a better game but I like the basic concept of utopia but not the actual reality.
In theory the rules say we should be nice and not cheat, the reality is the opposite.
The system is flawed and trading and x-logging have excisted a long time at least since age 10 when I started.
It has always been a issue which Mefool avoided doing much except on occasion deleting those who were obviously cheating.
But people grows smarter by the time and then we have the scripter issue as well.
There is lots of provinces created just on sole purpose to end up in the "right" kd.
using fixed ip is probably the best remedy for cheating in utopia however now that wol has gone from whopping 55k to measly 19k players or should I say provinces now one really knows how many players there is my guess is it's below 15k due to many multies.
I recon most non cheaters has left because they came to realize that they weren't able to compete against people who cheats.

This is a difficult issue to deal with because there is always pro's and con's but in general as it is now I'm not amazed by the top 100 kd's because I've been into 20+ of them throughout the times for various period of time and got kicked out mostly because they wanted my account which I by the rules are not allowed to give to them.
And in all except my 1st experience didn't give away. :)

Many top kd's announced their innocence they've never traded blah blah blah and they know as well as me they're just lying to cover their own fony arse.
they trade and x-log this varies ofcourse from kd's to kd's some more than others.

If you want kd's with the least amount of cheating you need to go to ghetto's but ghetto's are hard to play in since they're often unorganized mostly because there is a bunch of people who cannot follow simple rules of team play which is why I urge for some possibility to make the game more fair for all.

On genesis the change from every age works out good less cheating however it's easier to quit utopia if you're not allowed to stick with your friends from age to age.

I hope OMAC will find a solution to this issue.

[Jays]

Riduclously stupid suggestions.

1) Static IP's. *I play from within a network where I work, my IP is not static and it never will be since my network does not assign static IP's.

2) Only one email address and IP ever allowed *Again I use multiple emails when signing up to ANYTHING online, I NEVER use my personal email address. As for the rubbish IP suggestion, I login from home and from work.... Do the math.

3) Genesis reshuffle. *Ridiculous again. Please stop making suggestions.

[Bijo]

master hacker here lol jk jk
its not going to work you know. why? becouse i can always reg under diff ip!
i have alot of tricks how to do it without proxy and without network ^^
i can have 12 def ips and they will all be real and you cant do sh*t about it becouse you wont have any way to know its not the same guy

its a good thing that i dont cheat. but if i know how to do it so can others
but i like the idiea maybe it can lower the number of cheaters in this game but just so you know you can never stop the cheating (sorry to be the one that tell you this)

[AFKain]

Yes there's a cheating problem in the top (and elsewhere), but no none of your "fixes" are viable. The only thing that could be used without causing major damage to the game would be the fixed email, which might lower trading a bit. I do think even that one might cause some trouble though, there are many legitimate reasons for changing your email account.

[Bijo]

AFKain maybe they can add some 2nd email address in the reg system????
if you cant use the fist email you can use the 2nd one?
or maybe email in game??? that will be great!
i mean if someone dont have a 2nd email the game can give him an auto mini email account in game only

that will realy solve the problam!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

and if you will still have a email problam you can alwasy send email in game and they will replace it for you if its not a cheater you will only have to do it like 3 times in like 10 years


they can also add max replace email address
like if you need to change it you can do it only 2-3 times max
and if someone still cheating and the kd is replacing the player they can only do that 2-3 times max

[AFKain]

If you are a cheater you would only have to change your email once. The effect the suggested fixed email would have on trading is that it would be much more difficult to trade the first player in a chain of trades assuming he/she signed up with his/her personal email. Any feature that allows the utopia account to be connected to any other email than this personal email account would negate this effect.

On the other hand as I said in the other post, I think this suggestion would bring a lot of problems as well, probably more than what it is worth in trading reduction.

[funnylumpy]

Riduclously stupid suggestions.

1) Static IP's. *I play from within a network where I work, my IP is not static and it never will be since my network does not assign static IP's.

Exactly you play from work/school as many does doesn't mean they can change it

2) Only one email address and IP ever allowed *Again I use multiple emails when signing up to ANYTHING online, I NEVER use my personal email address. As for the rubbish IP suggestion, I login from home and from work.... Do the math.

Ofcourse I hope no one uses their personal e-mail but the option to change e-mail is still there which makes it easy to trade.
And tip you should work at work not play games. Games is something you do at home not at work.


3) Genesis reshuffle. *Ridiculous again. Please stop making suggestions.

Why is it ridicilous because you don't like it? or the fact you might loose the privilege to stay with your kd?

So for attacking my suggestion with using ridicilous is just lame instead of actually contributing with anything troll. A counter suggestion would be far more productive.

master hacker here lol jk jk
its not going to work you know. why? becouse i can always reg under diff ip!
i have alot of tricks how to do it without proxy and without network ^^
i can have 12 def ips and they will all be real and you cant do sh*t about it becouse you wont have any way to know its not the same guy

its a good thing that i dont cheat. but if i know how to do it so can others
but i like the idiea maybe it can lower the number of cheaters in this game but just so you know you can never stop the cheating (sorry to be the one that tell you this)

Thanks for telling me that you're a cheater... not exactly what I was looking for.. but yeah it is a problem that you use x number of ip as you say and change it whenever you feel like for all your accounts.
So they will never catch you or those using your method of being multi.
And no it's not possible to eliminate all cheaters in an online game and I have to disappoint you but you're not the 1st one to tell me this. I've been playing online games for many years of different variety,
We will always find them no doubt about it but to remove some would be nice.


Hope others actually have constructive ideas how to do things instead of the lame trolling/flaming which unfortunatly all forums is filled with

[funnylumpy]

If you are a cheater you would only have to change your email once. The effect the suggested fixed email would have on trading is that it would be much more difficult to trade the first player in a chain of trades assuming he/she signed up with his/her personal email. Any feature that allows the utopia account to be connected to any other email than this personal email account would negate this effect.

On the other hand as I said in the other post, I think this suggestion would bring a lot of problems as well, probably more than what it is worth in trading reduction.

Agree the problem is that OMAC has to think about player base which is getting lower for every age now. Mystery to me why they bought the game on a downward trend.
Anyway trading is an issue but if it's a problem to make it more strict they might as well make it possible for crappy kd's to allow friends to join that is active and helping. At least makes the game more fair since there is still a lot of people actually not cheating and not willing to go so low.
The cheaters loose the advantage of trading in people and x-logging.
OMAC should still encourage people to play with one account and have to risk of deleting you if you x-log.

By allowing join a specific kd you will help encourage non cheaters to continue and recruit new people for the game. Their friends and their friend will in turn get more friends to join.
I see it as a positive thing and it stimulates the population and the risk is ofcourse you might end up with a kd full with a few people running several provinces but in those who choose to do this can't be stopped as it is now anyway. :)

[Bijo]

funnylumpy first read what i wrote then read it again and then again and maybe even one more time becouse i think you didnt read it well....

i never cheat! and dont you call me a cheater! NEVER!!!
i can cheat if i realy wanto because its so easy for someone like me, thats all
i have only 1 account always!!!

[Magn]

funnylumpy:

Controlling IP is not a stable method, but I may have a partial solution to your problem:

>- hand over account info so the monarch can incase he/she wants abuse it
- just give them the account most common used threat..

I've landed on several occasions in top kd's and the last option was most of the time used. Since they cannot send you a direct give me your account call in utopia they will use other means which is not linked to their province.
If they don't get you to sign up for irc or other chat/messenger they kill you off anyway.<

so why the heck did you give in to this garbage?

I'd either give him the finger, or if I felt like being cruel, I'd give him the acc and then refuse to give him the activation code the age after.

Guess I was lucky to land in my long time kingdom after the first defection, but there are definitely ways to handle stuff like that.

If thats their way of doing it, then top KDs cheat because some people just don't know how to assert themselves.

Heck, maybe you can even file a complaint about the province.

Hopefully, if they keep track of complaints, they'll be able to add 2 and 2 together when some province just had its 5th or 6th complain from within.

[funnylumpy]

funnylumpy first read what i wrote then read it again and then again and maybe even one more time becouse i think you didnt read it well....

i never cheat! and dont you call me a cheater! NEVER!!!
i can cheat if i realy wanto because its so easy for someone like me, thats all
i have only 1 account always!!!

It was the way you wrote your 1st comment.
You never cheat is what you claim we can only take your word for it which is up to each one to make a jugdement call on, if I call you a cheater its really nothing you can do to prove otherwise.
And this new statement didn't actually make things tip in your favour as regarding you cheating or not but it's not the issue however if you cheat or not I couldn't care less.

I'm just interested finding ways to make some changes to make it either harder to cheat or to level thing between those who cheats and those who choose not to.

What need to be done is to make a list of ways to cheat and possible solutions for it as it is not it's not benefiting the game at all.
If it continues like this utopia will be left with only the hardcore players and even they will get tired of the game eventually and there is no form for recruiting players.

[funnylumpy]

funnylumpy:

Controlling IP is not a stable method, but I may have a partial solution to your problem:

>- hand over account info so the monarch can incase he/she wants abuse it
- just give them the account most common used threat..

I've landed on several occasions in top kd's and the last option was most of the time used. Since they cannot send you a direct give me your account call in utopia they will use other means which is not linked to their province.
If they don't get you to sign up for irc or other chat/messenger they kill you off anyway.<

so why the heck did you give in to this garbage?

I'd either give him the finger, or if I felt like being cruel, I'd give him the acc and then refuse to give him the activation code the age after.

Guess I was lucky to land in my long time kingdom after the first defection, but there are definitely ways to handle stuff like that.

If thats their way of doing it, then top KDs cheat because some people just don't know how to assert themselves.

Heck, maybe you can even file a complaint about the province.

Hopefully, if they keep track of complaints, they'll be able to add 2 and 2 together when some province just had its 5th or 6th complain from within.

I gave in 1st time as I said because I didn't know better and thought it was the best thing to do since I was totally new to the game and didn't know the rules or understand the fact that account trading was not allowed.
All the other times I've given them the finger as you say. :)

I actually had 3 accounts myself 1st age I played.. All got deleted ofcourse since it was not allowed. My intention was not to cheat I played in 3 different kd's. My intention in my 1st age was to have more to do and thus creating more provinces became a solution but when I got all 3 provinces deleted and recived a msg from Swirve I got deleted because I had several accounts after that incident I kept to one account since I didn't want to get deleted again it was a bit sad to be deleted since one of my provinces were in a good kd but it was my own fault for not reading the rules properly just clicking agree without reading was probably not so smart. :)

[Lux]

funnylumpy, you sound like a n00b that is not worthy or not active enough to play in the top 50% of Utopia kingdoms.

I've landed in a ghetto this age. Since i'm playing Genesis, I log in there about once every 2 days, and guess what, nothing ever happens there.


If your rules are to be implemented, then OMAC will have to make soloing play a LOT more fun... e.g. Reducing the base attack time to 8 hours, that way I don't have to rely on my dumb kingdom. Playing in anything below the top 20% is boring.

[Godfather]

1)

I bet the thread starter doesn't have a static ip. very few people in fact have static ips. The only ones who probably would have are cheaters on proxies.

GOOD SUGGESTION DUDE, but a better one would be to limit ip ranges on accounts to the actual nationality selected when you sign up. If these does not match the account is red flagged and looked at manually.

2)
I bet the thread starter at a time has at one point or another had to change his email address.

GOOD SUGGESTION DUDE, but a better one would be to log all emails that have been used in utopia and on what account. If an email has previously been used on an account and that account was alive while the current one was delete them both. You just proved they either traded or are multis. Sure some people will just create new mails for new accounts, but i know for a fact most people are dumb and lazy.

3)
GOOD SUGGESTION DUDE, but we already have a server like this why would we want another? If people liked that game play the genesis server would be more popular than the regular one.

4)
GOOD SUGGESTION DUDE, but why would allowing active players to play together make crosslogging more popular? Crosslogging is typically done when the activity levels between players in a kingdom has huge disparity.

[funnylumpy]

funnylumpy, you sound like a n00b that is not worthy or not active enough to play in the top 50% of Utopia kingdoms.

I've landed in a ghetto this age. Since i'm playing Genesis, I log in there about once every 2 days, and guess what, nothing ever happens there.


If your rules are to be implemented, then OMAC will have to make soloing play a LOT more fun... e.g. Reducing the base attack time to 8 hours, that way I don't have to rely on my dumb kingdom. Playing in anything below the top 20% is boring.

If that is your impression but I have been playing this game for a long time since age 10 and been apart of many good kd's. But because of decline in amount of players people having real life issues our kd's shrinked and got merged with others and in the end dissolved totally maybe I've just been unlucky being apart of kd's that loose lots of player but according to former kd mates in other kd's they say the same happens to them as well so I recon there is a negative trend that people is leaving utopia overall from top to bottom. however the bottom will not get much new mostly provinces that end up getting killed of for being inactive or farms the good people is traded in to top kd's.
I've been offered by several good kd's to join because of my high activity and my loyalty to do what's the best for the kd. but so far I've declined all requests because the fact it's not allowed. It has been tempting on several occasion I must admitt that. So I'm stuck in a kd's that has no future because of the current rules.
I've played from kd ranked number 7 (me best kd) one age all down to the bottom.
My activity is I log at least 10+ times a day on wol server minimum so i always got lots of things to do. Never bother to grab the money bonus unless I'm busy or away for a short vacation. :)

However as others you fail to come with ideas to fix it is there so few people actually having good ideas how to make things better?
Or is it that most people don't care?