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Thread: Dwarf

  1. #31
    Post Demon Ishandra's Avatar
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    So is the general concensus Dwarves are weak?

    Im considering it for next age. Either DW/Warrior for A/m or Artisan for A/M. Wouldnt bother with mystic as BE+Artisan bonus should get wizzies up high enough and will have more runes with Artisan.

    I was almost definitely going to go with DE/Mystic but im playing it on gen and it just seems boring. Maybe thats just cos im in a gen ghetto though where no one attacks or gets attacked really :/

  2. #32
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    you've got to try at at some stage, its good. just take time to learn about them.

  3. #33
    Post Fiend mr187's Avatar
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    well im playing dwarf and i dont think they r weak. havent used WT this age too. after a wee bit of sci pumping its easy to get +110%thievery sci. xD worked wonders for me. hahahahahaha. although this was in gen. would like to try it out in wol too though. just imagine the possibilities? thanks to sci my BE is also quite high even with 70% draft. about 106%. no homes. hahaha dwarf rules. its the race i usually pick. so meh to u dorf haters out there

  4. #34
    Post Demon Ishandra's Avatar
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    The way I figure it is the 25% BE bonus means you can just run a lot less homes (putting most into WT I expect) and the rest is same as any other race.

    The only thing is your trading your thievery for fog and animate dead and free buildings.

    Saving money on draft, building and by having a speed advantage in trading blows seems fair to me for not being able to steal or NS/Kidnapping.

    But we'll see how it works out :)

  5. #35
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    No race is so vastly inferior that they are unplayable. IMO, gnome is the best, followed closely by orc, a few paces back are elf, human, and delf, another few paces behind them are the dwarfs. However, an active dwarf will be better than an inactive gnome.

    mr187, you have an exampe of an active dwarven province. Lets compare though:
    your dwarf with 2 tpa=> 2 *.5 (race penalty) *2.1 (sci) = 2.1 mod tpa
    a crappy gnomewith 2 tpa => 2 * 1.5 (race bonus) NO sci = 3 mod tpa

    Their elite costs are quite high too, 3k gc on a dwarf = 3 elites, 18 offensive points
    3k gc on a gnome = 10 elites, 30 offensive points.

    Dwarfs save money with free buildings, but those savings dont amount to much unless you are at very high acreage.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lead Pipe View Post
    your dwarf with 2 tpa=> 2 *.5 (race penalty) *2.1 (sci) = 2.1 mod tpa
    a crappy gnomewith 2 tpa => 2 * 1.5 (race bonus) NO sci = 3 mod tpa
    is that really how it is calculated? i always thought sci % would be added to the racial bonus/penalty before being applied as a modifier. like this:

    2 tpa => 2 + 2 * (-0.5+1.1) = 3.2 mod tpa

    if it works as you suggest, that really sucks for the dwarves.

  7. #37
    Sir Postalot
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    um, you do know you need +100% crime science to cancel out the theivery penalty =)

    oh, and orc > gnome

    orc > human > gnome

  8. #38
    Needs to get out more VT2's Avatar
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    100% thief-science won't 'cancel' out the penalty, dolt.
    Catwalk's crusade for legalized cheating was a stunning success, with ghettos and low-tiered teams everywhere losing their wells of knowledge to better kingdoms in the process.

    Step one: replace everything that works.
    Step two: blame the predictable epic fail on outside forces.
    Step three: keep the community informed that no progress has been made since the last update.
    Step four: thank you for your patience.

  9. #39
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    Don't be so mean.

    Mathematically you will sit at 100% of TPA but that doesn't mean if you have 200% sci you'd cancel and then get 100% more.

  10. #40
    Post Demon Ishandra's Avatar
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    When a real T hits you though, is it gunna matter wether your mod TPA is 2.1 or 3.0?

    Seems to me you either sit with roughly even TPA to people and take a bit of damage but they lose thieves, or you sit with really high TPA and thieves wont bother hitting you, you just have near 100% success on non thieves, or you sith with near 0 TPA and are a massive target. At least with WT though the damage is reduced and hopefully people give up.

  11. #41
    Forum Addict RAKIdaRHINO's Avatar
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    waheed
    20~25% watchtowers is overkill. generally 15% is enough to stop people from abusing u with thieves unless they wish to do it at great cost

    15% WTs are hardly enough.. but then again, 25% isnt either.. thats the problem :) dwarf has better BE though, so they get away with little less.. in the end it all comes down to the tpa, which makes a/t so much better than a/m..

    Simon

    You only think Elf should be A/T because for some unknown reason you feel that gnome is unplayable, when it is really the only effective A/T.


    pretty much everyone can run effective a/ts.. ofc gnomes helps out alot (duh) but that doesnt mean everyone else will be ineffective.. just not as effective..

  12. #42
    Forum Addict Toadi's Avatar
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    Their elite costs are quite high too, 3k gc on a dwarf = 3 elites, 18 offensive points
    3k gc on a gnome = 10 elites, 30 offensive points.
    Comparing Elite efficiency using costs does not make much sense. Money is an unlimited ressource in Utopia, while military troops are not. In your example 3K gc on a Gnome = 3 elites and gold remaining, not 10 elites. So you'd only get 15 offensive points raw. The Dwarf elite is overall better than the Gnome elite in terms of efficiency. It's still pretty weak though when compared to Orc or Elf elites.

  13. #43
    Postaholic
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    15% WT is good enough if u still want to keep other war buildings

    it depends on ur definition of "stopping thieves". if u want to make it so u'll stop like 70% of the ops then u should go 40% WT and 3 raw tpa. but generally in a war situation 15% WT will slow down ops enough that u'll be able to damage a/t more than they can damage u

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by waheed View Post
    15% WT is good enough if u still want to keep other war buildings
    I'd advocate a min 20% WTs, but a very low mod TPA.

    A dwarf can be a very strong attacker if you go for NW-effeciency, you have +25% to TG and Forts. So build 20% TG and 15% Forts, nearly no thieves, pump building, thief and mage sci + only use minimum elites. The result is awesome nw effeciency. DPA and OPA will suck, but OPNW and DPNW will be as good as it gets. Why worry about OPA and DPA when you can hit someone half your size in acres for good gains, and at the same time someone 10% bigger than you in acres gets a stiffling bottom-feeding penalty when hitting you.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toadi View Post
    Money is an unlimited ressource in Utopia, while military troops are not. In your example 3K gc on a Gnome = 3 elites and gold remaining, not 10 elites. So you'd only get 15 offensive points raw. The Dwarf elite is overall better than the Gnome elite in terms of efficiency.
    Money is unlimited, but the time spent getting money is your limit. A dwarf cannot maintain growth if they want elites, and in war they cannot afford to train elites. I agree that they are more space effecient, but IMO ...
    growing/warring > space efficiency

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