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Thread: Gnome/Artisan Build

  1. #31
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    I've done some math. Let me know if there is anything wrong with it:

    Build 1 - 30% Homes & 63% Draft Rate
    ---------------------------------------------------
    Building - Acres
    Homes - 300 (+3450 pop (300*8*1,15*1,25)
    Farms - 50
    TGs - 250 (+28.57% off @ 101,6% BE)
    Forts - 100 (+13.72% def @ 101,6% BE)
    Guilds - 100
    TDs - 200
    Stables - 0
    Total - 1000

    Raw Max Pop: 28750 (25*1000*1,15)
    Peas. Needed: 11725 (25*1000*0,7*0,67)
    Mod. Max Pop: 32200 (28750+3450)
    Draft: 0,63
    Peasants: 11914 (32200*(1-0,63))
    BE: 1,016 (11914/11725)
    Wizards: 1500 (1.5 wpa)
    Thieves: 2500 (2.5 tpa)
    Total Military: 16286
    Off Specs: 8143 (0,5*16286)
    Def Specs: 4886 (0,3*16286)
    Elites: 3257 (0,2*16286)
    Total Off: 57001
    Total Mod. Off: 73286 (73 opa)
    TMO No Elites: 52347 (52 opa)
    Total Def: 40715
    Total Mod. Def: 46301 (46 dpa)
    TMD Elites Out: 27781 (28 dpa)


    Build 2 - 20% Homes + 10% Stables & 63% Draft Rate
    ---------------------------------------------------
    Building - Acres
    Homes - 200 (+2300 pop (200*8*1,15*1,25)
    Farms - 50
    TGs - 250 (+24.1% off @ 85,7% BE)
    Forts - 100 (+11.57% def @ 85,7% BE)
    Guilds - 100
    TDs - 200
    Stables - 100
    Total - 1000

    Raw Max Pop: 28750
    Peas. Needed: 13400
    Mod. Max Pop: 31050
    Draft: 0,63
    Peasants: 11489
    BE: 0,857
    Wizards: 1500
    Thieves: 2500
    Total Military: 15562
    Off Specs: 7781
    Def Specs: 4668
    Elites: 3112
    Total Off: 61965
    Total Mod. Off: 76899 (77 opa)
    TMO No Elites: 57587 (58 opa)
    Total Def: 38904
    Total Mod. Def: 43405 (43 dpa)
    TMD Elites Out: 26043 (26 dpa)
    Last edited by chedrah; 15-09-2008 at 13:48.

  2. #32
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    The BE should have been 1.00 (read 100%) for the first build.

  3. #33
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    Here are two other builds @ 2500 acres each:

    Build 3 - 30% Homes & 63% Draft Rate (@100% BE)
    ---------------------------------------------------
    Homes 750 (+8625 pop)
    Farms 125
    TGs 438 (+21,67% off)
    Forts 438 (+21,67% def)
    Guilds 250
    TDs 500
    Stables 0
    Total 2500

    Raw Max Pop: 71875
    Peas. Needed: 29313
    Mod. Max Pop: 80500
    Draft: 0,63
    Peasants: 29785
    BE: 1,000 (1,016 actual)
    Wizards: 3750
    Thieves: 6250
    Total Military: 40715
    Off Specs: 16286 (40%)
    Def Specs: 16286 (40%)
    Elites: 8143 (20%)
    Total Off: 122145
    Total Mod. Off: 148614 (59opa)
    TMO No Elites: 99076 (40opa)
    Total Def: 122145
    Total Mod. Def: 148614 (59dpa)
    TMD Elites Out: 99076 (40dpa)


    Build 4 - 40% Homes minus 5% TGs, Forts & 70% Draft Rate (@99.6% BE)
    ---------------------------------------------------
    Homes 1000 (+11500 pop)
    Farms 125
    TGs 313 (+16,36% off)
    Forts 313 (+16,36% def)
    Guilds 250
    TDs 500
    Stables 0
    Total 2500

    Raw Max Pop: 71875
    Peas. Needed: 25125
    Mod. Max Pop: 83375
    Draft: 0,7
    Peasants: 25013
    BE: 0,996
    Wizards: 3750
    Thieves: 6250
    Total Military: 48363
    Off Specs: 19345
    Def Specs: 19345
    Elites: 9673
    Total Off: 145088
    Total Mod. Off: 168824 (68opa)
    TMO No Elites: 112549 (45opa)
    Total Def: 145088
    Total Mod. Def: 168824 (68dpa)
    TMD Elites Out: 112549 (45dpa)


    * Keeping max. BE, it looks like a better idea to run 70% draft w/ 40% homes than 63% draft w/ 30% homes @2500 acres.

    In order to see what kind of an impact the increase in acreage has on the effectiveness of homes, I am adding another build that is comparable to Build 4:

    Build 5 - Same as Build 4 @1000 acres
    ---------------------------------------------------
    Homes 400 (+4600 pop)
    Farms 50
    TGs 125 (+16,34% off)
    Forts 125 (+16,34% def)
    Guilds 100
    TDs 200
    Stables 0
    Total 1000

    Raw Max Pop: 28750
    Pes. Needed: 10050
    Mod. Max Pop: 33350
    Draft: 0,7
    Peasants: 10005
    BE: 0,996
    Wizards: 1500
    Thieves: 2500
    Total Military: 19345
    Off Specs: 7738 (40%)
    Def Specs: 7738 (40%)
    Elites: 3869 (20%)
    Total Off: 58035
    Total Mod. Off: 67518 (68opa)
    TMO No Elites: 45012 (45opa)
    Total Def: 58035
    Total Mod. Def: 67518 (68dpa)
    TMD Elites Out: 45012 (45dpa)


    * Conclusion: No impact. Please analyze and leave your comments. Thanks!
    Last edited by chedrah; 15-09-2008 at 21:29.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by chedrah View Post
    I've done some math. Let me know if there is anything wrong with it:
    well, unlike what i said, you didnt put them into tg's and forts, you put em straight into stables (not to mention the split sucks... 25% and 10% cmon!)

    and i seriously doubt that you'll end up with 85% be with that DR and 20% homes...

    30% homes @ 63% DR
    pop/acre = (.3*33 + .7 *25) *1.15 = 31.5 pop/acre
    jobs/acre = 25 * .67 * .7 = 11.725
    a 63% DR gives = 31.5 * (1 - 0.63) = 11.655 pez/acre
    pretty much 100% BE

    20% homes @ 63% DR
    pop/acre = (.2*33 + .8 *25) *1.15 = 30.6 pop/acre
    jobs/acre = 25 * .67 * .8 = 13.4
    a 63% DR = 30.6 * (1 - 0.63) = 11.322

    BE calc
    0.6 + 0.4 * (11.32/13.4) = 93.5%

    and if you had 15% forts and TG's @ 100% BE, thats 19.1% bonus to each
    up it to 18% each @ 93.5% BE = 20.69%

    thats a 20.69/19.1 = 8% increase to offense and defense, yes you loose some mil/acre, but in the end its about the same off/def with a lower nw ;)

    need i say any more? =)
    Last edited by _greenie; 15-09-2008 at 21:08.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by _greenie View Post
    well, unlike what i said, you didnt put them into tg's and forts, you put em straight into stables (not to mention the split sucks... 25% and 10% cmon!)

    and i seriously doubt that you'll end up with 85% be with that DR and 20% homes...

    30% homes @ 63% DR
    pop/acre = (.3*33 + .7 *25) *1.15 = 31.5 pop/acre
    jobs/acre = 25 * .67 * .7 = 11.725
    a 63% DR gives = 31.5 * (1 - 0.63) = 11.655 pez/acre
    pretty much 100% BE

    20% homes @ 63% DR
    pop/acre = (.2*33 + .8 *25) *1.15 = 30.6 pop/acre
    jobs/acre = 25 * .67 * .8 = 13.4
    a 63% DR = 30.6 * (1 - 0.63) = 11.322

    BE calc
    0.6 + 0.4 * (11.32/13.4) = 93.5%

    and if you had 15% forts and TG's @ 100% BE, thats 19.1% bonus to each
    up it to 18% each @ 93.5% BE = 20.69%

    thats a 20.69/19.1 = 8% increase to offense and defense, yes you loose some mil/acre, but in the end its about the same off/def with a lower nw ;)

    need i say any more? =)
    Please comment on my newer post (#33) as well greenie (it addresses some of the issues you pointed out). Thanks a bunch!

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by chedrah View Post
    * Keeping max. BE, it looks like a better idea to run 70% draft w/ 40% homes than 63% draft w/ 30% homes @2500 acres.
    but who keeps 100% raw BE??? (except vines...)

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by _greenie View Post
    but who keeps 100% raw BE??? (except vines...)
    OK I'll try some with 85% raw BE ;)

    PS: Thanks for the BE formula by the way :)
    Last edited by chedrah; 15-09-2008 at 21:44.

  8. #38
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    Your province fails for not having vines' imaginary math.
    Catwalk's crusade for legalized cheating was a stunning success, with ghettos and low-tiered teams everywhere losing their wells of knowledge to better kingdoms in the process.

    Step one: replace everything that works.
    Step two: blame the predictable epic fail on outside forces.
    Step three: keep the community informed that no progress has been made since the last update.
    Step four: thank you for your patience.

  9. #39
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    I've calculated the opa, dpa, opnw, dpnw values keeping a BE of ~85% and changing the draft rates accordingly. Here's what I have gathered for the 3 builds @1000 acres:

    20% Homes + 22.5% Forts & TGs @73% DR & 85.0% BE
    ----------------------------------------------------
    Total Mod. Off: 68448 (68opa)
    TMO No Elites: 45632 (46opa)
    Total Mod. Def: 68448 (68dpa)
    TMD Elites Out: 45632 (46dpa)

    Total Military: 18667 (40% off specs, 40% def specs, 20% elites)
    Military NW: 86799
    Total NW: 166183
    opnw: 0,412
    dpnw: 0,412


    30% Homes + 17.5% Forts & TGs @77% DR & 85.3% BE
    ----------------------------------------------------
    Total Mod. Off: 73904 (74opa)
    TMO No Elites: 49269 (49opa)
    Total Mod. Def: 73904 (74dpa)
    TMD Elites Out: 49269 (49dpa)

    Total Military: 20794 (40% off specs, 40% def specs, 20% elites)
    Military NW: 96692
    Total NW: 175098
    opnw: 0,422
    dpnw: 0,422


    40% Homes + 12.5% Forts & TGs @81% DR & 85.2% BE
    ----------------------------------------------------
    Total Mod. Off: 78692 (79opa)
    TMO No Elites: 52462 (52opa)
    Total Mod. Def: 78692 (79dpa)
    TMD Elites Out: 52462 (52dpa)

    Total Military: 23014 (40% off specs, 40% def specs, 20% elites)
    Military NW: 107013
    Total NW: 184349
    opnw: 0,427
    dpnw: 0,427


    * Conclusion: Having 40% homes makes a slightly better warmonger if the above calculations are correct.
    Last edited by chedrah; 16-09-2008 at 14:44.

  10. #40
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    I can run my province close to a 90% draft and still keep 100% raw BE, however, I do not do that. I only run around a 71%-75%. The reason I do it is because in the time I took to train 90% of population into military I could have already attacked and gain much land.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by vines View Post
    I can run my province close to a 90% draft and still keep 100% raw BE
    Could you explain how one can do that? Extremely high pop sci? Dungeons?

  12. #42
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    If you haven't noticed already, vines likes to make up numbers so you should probably just ignore his advice.

  13. #43
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    chedrah, you keep raising the draft rate as you are increasing the homes %. Of course you are going to have a higher military strength with a higher draft rate. Try running your scenario with a constant draft rate; consequently, having the BE drop with less homes instead of lowering the draft rate.

  14. #44
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    Ummm wouldn't that give us incomparable results since we would not be taking into account the loss of effectiveness (i.e. "value") in non-military buildings because of the BE drop w/ less homes?

    I think keeping a constant BE while changing DR is the more logical way to do this, since the purpose of having more homes is being able to raise your DR anyway, isn't it?

    What does everyone else think?
    Last edited by chedrah; 16-09-2008 at 15:33.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeTyson View Post
    Of course you are going to have a higher military strength with a higher draft rate.
    I also want to reply to this comment separately.

    What I am doing here is trying to see if the loss of military buildings (TGs & Forts) is worth the pop and NW gain achieved by building more Homes and being able to train more soldiers. I was especially interested in what the opnw and dpnw values would show. A higher draft rate might not necessarily have meant a higher military strength.
    Last edited by chedrah; 16-09-2008 at 17:11.

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