Why all elite gnome = bad?

[RAKIdaRHINO]

i wonder why the small gnomes have lots of speccs and the big gnomes have lots of elites..
if you were right wouldnt it be the other way around? =)

[trefnwyd]

Actually, no.

The biggest gnomes are trying to stay nw inflated to stay out of range of other attackers. Gnomes who are likely to attack and be attacked in war need to focus on opnw. Gnomes exploring ftw just want to grow and maintain huge nw.

[Gothmog]

Seems to me that the people most concerned about the NW inflation are people who are so small that it doesn't really matter, but who are mainly buying into old numbercrunching arguments about optimal NWA for NW whoring.

In wars in medium/small kds, the NW difference wont matter much IMO, but all elites will far outdo any NW advantage due to beeing alot more flexible, t/m resistant and cheaper.

[Catwalk]

Gothmog, why wouldn't NW matter in wars? When chaining, you tend to make hits below your own NW.

[Gothmog]

The NW difference caused by the elits will have little effect in a chain imo, unless you're the first to hit, and that you wont likely to be if the target is alot smaller than you, and then the added flexibiltiy which might enable you to quad or triple hit will be a much better advantage than NWA.

I still maintain that the whole NW-diff issue is something of a old truth that stands despite the fact that it's outdated. When compairing the the advantages of specs. Better gains and lower gains against you vis a vis the disadvantages, more costly, more vulnerable to ops, not beeing able to turtle, not beeing able to send more troops if the situation appears I far prefer the elits.

The gains thingy only counts if you plan to wave and don't get into wars...

[Ced]

What's the chance of you turtling in war after the first intial attack? and why would someone send out ALL their elites ? ( since u said you have the flexiblity to do so). If you leave 80 DPA and someone breaks you, then i just shrug and move on,.

You try to find a balance, and going all elites doesnt make any sense other then being cheaper. But you have free specs anyways after attack so that cost advantage isnt exactly an advantage anymore.

[trefnwyd]

agreed. There is no need to run all leet. 1:1:1 allows for about 80 dpa in war (with forts) at full daft. Who needs more than that in war? If someone is wasting their time hitting that in war then it's probably a good thing for your kingdom. However, saving a pile of nw by investing in off specs make you more nw efficient while still allowing for semi turtling and flexibility. No point in wasting nw is there...?

[waheed]

the only situation i can think of when nw inflation really matters is if ur whole kingdom is gnome, then u r forced to war other kingdoms where have more military than urs on average

but if there are only few gnomes in a kd then it doesnt matter at all. especially if the gnome is big, then tactical advantage >>> nw inflation

[Catwalk]

The NW difference caused by the elits will have little effect in a chain imo, unless you're the first to hit, and that you wont likely to be if the target is alot smaller than you, and then the added flexibiltiy which might enable you to quad or triple hit will be a much better advantage than NWA.

This didn't make sense. Why wouldn't it make a difference if your NW is 250k or 260k when chaining a target at 200k NW? Same if you're being chained, you're easier to chain at 260k due to being more available to provinces with higher offense. Sure, it's still a tradeoff situation but you're saying that the NW just doesn't matter.

[kengman]

This is a mostly percentage based game, so it doesn't matter if your at 400 or 4000 acres, nw difference is still the same percentage.

Anyway there is a simple way to compare the nw effectiveness of an army, you simply ad you effective opa to you effective dpa and divide that with your nw per acre. Let me use my own prov as example:


Ruler Name: Baron ***** the Rogue
Personality & Race: The Rogue, Gnome
Land: 831 Acres
Money: 2,595,231gc (13,993gc daily income)
Food: 211,081 bushels
Runes: 7,032 runes
Population: 27,421 citizens (33.00 per Acre)
Peasants: 5,980 (84% Building Efficiency)
Trade Balance: 2,716,742gc (0% tax rate)
Total Networth: 158,750gc (191.03 per Acre)

ME+Stance (no spells): 119.62% off. / 120.77% def.
Soldiers: 0 (69% estimated draft rate)
Halflings: 4,970 (29,727 offense)
Pikemen: 5,142 (31,051 defense)
Golems: 5,353 (32,017 offense / 32,325 defense)
War-Horses: 3,960 (up to 4,737 additional offense)
Prisoners: 313 (1,123 offense)

Total Modified Offense: 67,604 (81.35 per Acre)
Practical (50% elites): 51,593 (62.08 per Acre)
Total Modified Defense: 63,376 (76.26 per Acre)
Practical (50% elites): 47,210 (56.81 per Acre)

Thieves: 3,443 (4.14 per Acre / 71% Stealth)
Wizards: 2,533 (3.05 per Acre / 35% Mana)

My nw is 158750 and my nw per acre is 191.03gc

So this gives me 62,08 + 56,81 /191,03 = ~0,622 practical opa+dpa/nw (we need a name for this unit :P)

To make the system fair we also have to take into account the wpa and tpa, and probably a thousand other things, but this should enable us to do some comparing between different stats. Come on, play know :)

[chedrah]

So this gives me 62,08 + 56,81 /191,03 = ~0,622 practical opa+dpa/nw (we need a name for this unit :P)

yeah, i've also been thinking about a name for it for a while. i've come up with total military power per nw. could abbreviate it as POpnw. or we could call it offense defense per nw -- odpnw.

[Ishandra]

meh

[Catwalk]

How about RPP, ratio per point?

[chedrah]

are you guys pulling my leg just cause i am nub or are you serious? can't tell the difference yet. :p

[kengman]

We're actually serious :)