US Gov Bailout

[METALLICA]

"A goldfish isnt free even if it might believe that it is."

a goldfish probably defines freedom differently

if you think freedom is where you can do whatever you want, well, i'd say that nobody is free, that freedom is impossible.

if you think that freedom means that life is fair, then once again, freedom is impossible.

if you think that freedom means that you are surrounded by a society that puts an effort forth to make life as fair as possible, than that may be possible.

there are lines everywhere, you just have to choose which ones you're willing to cross

[RAKIdaRHINO]

freedom is an absolute concept. youre either free or your not. believing youre free doesnt mean you are.

that freedom isnt impossible, just not legally possible under the system youre in. nothing impossible about it really, its the natural order of life.

which is americas definition of freedom since it doesnt fit either of them? Except perhaps the goldfish definition.

[METALLICA]

"that freedom isnt impossible, just not legally possible under the system youre in. nothing impossible about it really, its the natural order of life."

the system isn't the government, the system is human nature.

there is no such thing as freedom for mankind, and there never has been.

there are people that pursue freedom and get close, but they can only get so far before other people start find success by limiting their freedom.

the harder the free side pulls, the harder the other side pulls back. name a time/place when this was not the case

[RAKIdaRHINO]

whats in human nature? whats restrictive of freedom in human nature? id say any restrictions on the individual are made up concepts to regulate behaviour.. the human nature card is overplayed.. we know very little of our own nature, and very much about our own ways of living.. we know that how we live reflects what we were taught.. we know that people that are taught differently live differently.. i dont believe that 99% of what people claim to be inherent to mankind actually is.. its just that we fail to realize that were enslaving ourselves.

[METALLICA]

ahhh...and when has that not been the case?

you are arguing that self-enslavery is only a tendency due to culture and not an inevitable fate drawn from our genetics. i can't argue against that. the answer to that lies in the future of our race just as much as the answer to how existence began lies in the past.

maybe it is a law of perception. maybe the chance at change exists on what level you choose to accept 'human nature' in whichever way you wish to perceive it, or in whichever way you choose to rebel against yourself and the 'human nature' of which you were brought up in this world to live inside of, like a mime in a box.

i can't help but imagine a series of chickens hatching from eggs that were laid by the previous chickens until one chicken lays an egg that a turtle comes out of.

[RAKIdaRHINO]

chickens dont lay eggs, hens do ;)

[METALLICA]

that was in reference to the common question of which came first? the chicken or the egg?

hope it still made sense if you didn't make that connection though

[dka]

The "Emergency Economic Stabilization Act" is obviously unconstitutional according to the "Constitution of the United States".
According to the "Constitution of the United States of America" article I section VII paragraph I: "All bills for raising revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with amendments as on other Bills." [1]
This violates the constitution because the Senate written revenue related Amendments to the bill(H.R.1424). One way they amended the bill was by attaching the "emergency economic stabilization act" which is a revenue related bill that failed to pass the House of Representatives.
Than they proceeded to vote on it first, and sent it to the House of Representatives [2]. Thus the tax portion of the bill that was amended originates from the Senate, not the House of Representatives. [3]

All of this means it originated from the Senate not the House of Representatives.

Sources
[1] The Constitution of the United States of America
[2] http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquer...0:HR01424:@@@S
[3] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0H7M7QEOFlI Ron Paul seen here
explaining why the Bailout bill is unconstitutional(Ron paul voted nay on
bailout bill both times.
[4] http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2008/roll681.xml House Representatives Roll call
on amendments added by Senate to H.R.1424.
[5] http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LI...n=2&vote=00213 Senate roll call on amendments added to H.R.1424.
[6] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRUo0...rs.com/?p=5109 Ron Paul on bailout bill during congress right before it passed.

[Swirvin' Birds]

The Republicans have been stepping all over the constitution since Bush and his republican neo-cons came into power.

[dka]

The Republicans have been stepping all over the constitution since Bush and his republican neo-cons came into power.

So have the democrats. Bush couldn't have threaded the constitution so much
without the help of the democrats in congress.
The majority in the house of representatives, and the senate that voted yea to the bailout bill that passed were democrats. And If I am not mistaken, the house majority have been democrats for awhile now.
Bush, as president cannot actually vote either. Even though written law
seems to matter less and less to congress I am not aware of him actually
voting as president, he is able to voice his opinion on a bill though.
This basically means he needs to be enabled to shred the constitution piece by piece.

I don't think there is any significant difference between the democrat, and republican parties.

[METALLICA]

"The Republicans have been stepping all over the constitution since Bush and his republican neo-cons came into power."

i wouldn't recommend drawing a connection between conservatives and neoconservatives without drawing a connection between democrats and the fall of mankind.

but thanks for forgetting that the president has no power without the congress, which btw is largely rich liberal fools, and that everything he has done has either been approved by them, or has been approved by him after they made it.

if i didn't know any better, i'd say the democrats voted in a liberal congress that is really neocon at heart, or that bush is really a democrat? lol HAHAHA