Help Me With A Elf/Rogue A/T Build

[Ishandra]

My mistake :P

I tend to use CB+SoM almost all the time.

Doesn't change the rest of my post lol. And if your not a target GS are worthless (compared to tg/forts) which is why I build them if im actually being chained or think im about to be.

[Realest]

by the time ur GS come in, you are already chained. GS, like WT, are only effective if ran on a kd wide basis.

[waheed]

forts are great if ur province can potentially become unbreakable or if u start with high defense (55+dpa with elites out). but if u keep 40dpa and keep forts so u can "keep less defense and send out more offense" then its useless

GS on the other hand, if ur prov is high defense and can potentially be pumped to unbreakable, then GS is useless. however if ur prov is semi suicide and can forget about being unbreakable then GS is great

[Kirk]

Realest,
There is no need for that sort of language. A simple wtf would have been enough. Right or wrong we're all here to have a civil discussion.

Thank you for the information about SoM's. But for my edification; what does "a Som/Som" mean? Spy on Military I knew, but why say it twice?

[waheed]

Realest,
There is no need for that sort of language. A simple wtf would have been enough.

i disagree. realest's choice of language is perfectly appropriet and perfectly cool.

som/som means u take two som, and u can calculate the enemy's exact defense from that. usually kds have bots to help them do this calculation

altho im a fan of cb/som cuz stealth are more precious than mana and as long as u keep in mind about forts/mp/townwatch its fine

[Ishandra]

I disagree with GS and WT needing to be run KD wide, completely.

WT are worthless on high TPA provinces and similarly GS are worthless on people that aren't getting hit. You certainly shouldnt need WT on an elf/rogue A/T. GS on the other hand, quite possibly.

And it only takes 20 hours for GS to come in. If i'm being chained seriously enough for me to build them it will be over 48 hours at least in a REAL war.

[waheed]

except it only takes 1 hour if ur enemy wanna wreck ur province. so u need to becareful and only suicide when ur GS is ready

[Kirk]

On that we will have to differ. The "f-bomb" is rarely, if ever

... perfectly appropriet and perfectly cool

Some folks take offense to it. Not me in particular, but I know some that do. Besides, some of the readers may be of the younger variety. I'm sure they've all heard it and worse on the playground, but that is a paltry excuse to display a general lack of class and culture.

IRL I'm closer to 40 than 30 and regularly work with juvies. There is blessed little that I have not heard expressed. Vulgarity for it's own sake is self-defeating. All you do is degrade yourself.



However, thank you kindly for the explaining what SoM/SoM meant. In the dark ages (we're talkin' single digits) we would, if able, get a couple and average them by hand. We knew there was a random factor that somehow corresponded to the number of thieves sent, but it was all a guesstimate.

[Fate1316]

I disagree with GS and WT needing to be run KD wide, completely.

WT are worthless on high TPA provinces and similarly GS are worthless on people that aren't getting hit. You certainly shouldnt need WT on an elf/rogue A/T. GS on the other hand, quite possibly.

And it only takes 20 hours for GS to come in. If i'm being chained seriously enough for me to build them it will be over 48 hours at least in a REAL war.

Ofc an A/T prov doesn't need WT. I think Realest assumed that people reading this had some sense, but I guess it is easier to be stupid and ignorant than to think. And GS does need to be ran on a KD level. If a few provs run GS, then most likely they simply won't be targeted at first, and as their land comes in and GS % goes down, they will be chained. As others have pointed out, if you think that you can afford to wait 20hrs for GS, then you simply have not been in a REAL war. If a KD wants to take you out, it only takes 10 minutes. Ghetto players that think they know what they are doing are so amusing. That is the one type of player that no one likes. The high and mighty retard that refuses to listen to his betters. Oh well.......

[clarey]

Find an idiotproof strategy and someone will make a better idiot :(

[Ishandra]

I find it disappointing how so many on here spend more time picking apart posts and trying to insult others than they do providing anything constructive.

"If a few provs run GS, then most likely they simply won't be targeted at first, and as their land comes in and GS % goes down, they will be chained." Your only looking at 1 end of the spectrum here, the bottom end. what if 90% of the KD run GS, will the enemy focus ALL attacks on the other 1 prov? How bout 80%, 70% etc. Dont count on it. GS dont dictate targets all by themselves.

You cant say anything is definitely better in this game because there are always variables. Trying to imply someone or their KD are inferior because they are looking at one scenario, while you talk about another, is just pointless.

I could argue towers are worthless if my KD was all DE. I could say hospitals are worthless if I was running an all Elf and Gnome KD.

Fate, you say Realest assumed people would know A/T didn't need WT. Why cant I assume a war is lasting more than a real life weak? Its acually quite normal to change your build during a longer war, especially to include or remove GS. If I become unbreakable I will certainly drop GS. If I become an obvious target or I'm getting landfat but still easily hittable, I will build more GS.

And to the point, do you honestly believe GS and WT need to be run KD wide? (other than A/T and expectedly T/Ms, which you (Realest + Fate if you share the opinion) conveniently failed to mention until your posts are shown to be flawed)

Surely you must realise there are quite a few exceptions. Glazing over them may be convenient for you but it doesn't lend much to discussion in a thread where someone is asking for help on his build, even if its completely derailed.

No 1 building is a 'be all and end all' building. Yes you may be weaker in 1 area by dropping it but unless your running barren lands you're going to make up for it somewhere else, even if its only in different situations.

[clarey]

I find it disappointing how so many on here spend more time picking apart posts and trying to insult others than they do providing anything constructive.

They offered constructive criticism. It is to your discredit that you can't get it through your mind, that 'phasing GS in' is utterly fail and not worth it. While you are 'phasing' your GS in I'm just going to put you up as a chain target. Even if I played in a ghetto, and you were speedbuilding your GS, we could easily get 11 hits in the time it took you to build your GS.

"If a few provs run GS, then most likely they simply won't be targeted at first, and as their land comes in and GS % goes down, they will be chained." Your only looking at 1 end of the spectrum here, the bottom end. what if 90% of the KD run GS, will the enemy focus ALL attacks on the other 1 prov? How bout 80%, 70% etc. Dont count on it. GS dont dictate targets all by themselves.

And YOU should look at it this way - If I took surveys of a kingdom and noticed someone without GS and the rest or majority of his KD had GS, it would be a strong/prime factor which would influence me in choosing to make him the chain target. You are totally underestimating the effects of GS or looking at it from a wrong POV.

You cant say anything is definitely better in this game because there are always variables. Trying to imply someone or their KD are inferior because they are looking at scenario, while you talk about another, is just pointless.

I could argue towers are worthless if my KD was all DE. I could say hospitals are worthless if I was running an all Elf and Gnome KD.

Why on earth are you stating the obvious, to try and argue that A/T don't need WTs? Er, duh? Scenarios are fluid but alot of things stay the same.

Fate, you say Realest assumed people would know A/T didn't need WT. Why cant I assume a war is lasting more than a real life weak? Its acually quite normal to change your build during a war, especially to include GS.

So your A/Ts would what, become redundant in the course of a week long war? And you would like to phase GS in? :\

[Ishandra]

So your A/Ts would what, become redundant in the course of a week long war? And you would like to phase GS in? :\

I'm not even sure what thats supposed to mean. Im saying, that by admitting A/Ts dont need WT after making a blanket statement that they must be run KD wide to be effective, you cant pick apart other peoples comments by throwing in variable to change the scenario they are describing.




And I wasn't trying to say I would build GS to save myself from being GBed off the bat by half the KD down to being neutralised, I was saying that I would build them if I was being taken down and I wanted to be able to get back up.

Once a prov has been taken down by hits obviously it doesnt take a lot to keep them down. If they've now built GS though you will struggle to keep them down if they are able to tap or double tap your smaller provinces.

If your assuming 1 side in the war is decimated by the other, fair enough GS wont save you. If you look at it more fairly and assume the sides are around even, a strong province can at least minimise the effect of being GBed because its unlikely the enemy KD can afford to focus EVERYTHING on him.





And if building GS is such a bad idea, what would you guys all do if you were being GBed in a war?

Lets hear something constructive, please.

They offered constructive criticism. It is to your discredit that you can't get it through your mind, that 'phasing GS in' is utterly fail and not worth it. While you are 'phasing' your GS in I'm just going to put you up as a chain target. Even if I played in a ghetto, and you were speedbuilding your GS, we could easily get 11 hits in the time it took you to build your GS.

Out of the last few posts I can find ONE constructive comment,

If a few provs run GS, then most likely they simply won't be targeted at first, and as their land comes in and GS % goes down

Which even then doest show GS are worthless. It shows they are having an effect. If you want those provinces to become unbreakable, why not run GS until they are? Let your other guys who are running high forts and hospitals soak up more of the enemies military power for now.

[Ishandra]

And YOU should look at it this way - If I took surveys of a kingdom and noticed someone without GS and the rest or majority of his KD had GS, it would be a strong/prime factor which would influence me in choosing to make him the chain target. You are totally underestimating the effects of GS or looking at it from a wrong POV.

And what happens when the enemy is building GS and they come in 12 hours after you took that Survey, a few hours before your KDs wave. Oh look, I threw in a variable.

Unless your surveying the *entire* KD every few hours to be safe?

While you are 'phasing' your GS in I'm just going to put you up as a chain target. Even if I played in a ghetto, and you were speedbuilding your GS, we could easily get 11 hits in the time it took you to build your GS.

And this makes me laugh. I said I'd be building GS if I was being chained. Are you going to chain me even MORE somehow? Why chain someone who is increasing GS over someone else who might have none? Anyone can be chained down, you can hardly use it as an point to argue against a strategy, unless someone is claiming to be chain proof.

[iadjei]

ok so each side has a valid argument depending on the situation. my kd work together to help each others strat. we do not run a specific build kd wide as some kds might do. as for me i wont be running GS/WT.

however, reading the arguments got me thinking about goin orc/warrior and including GS in my build and WT during war also. but i guess thats another subject all together.

as an elf/rogue a/t, am not planing to be "unbreakable" i will hav descent defence and am more concerned about my OPA and TPA. am looking at running 4-TPA. and 80....OPA? and 45-DPA (dspecs only). is this a reasonable aime? could i do better than that?