Please help me with Elf A/M build

[cjt207]

Hey guys, I haven't got much experience playing utopia - I played one age as DE/Mystic and one age as EL/Mystic. Me = noob.

The current age in WoL I've been playing EL/Mystic A/M but I've learnt that it isn't practical to cast high cost spells like MS all the time during war because of rune shortages. Economy has also been tricky.

I want advice on how to improve things for next age. I want to remain an Elf A/M.

My build is:
Homes:20%
Farms: 7%
Banks: 15%
Training Grounds: 16%
Guilds:12%
Towers: 15%
Thieves' Dens: 15%

I run 2.5 tpa, 3.5 wpa & 65% DR

What do I need to fix & would it be better for me to run Artisan over Mystic for A/M?

[waheed]

it is not wise to sacrafise military strength for economy. u r better off running 0% banks and get some stable/fort with those 15%

also if u r gonna run 65% draft and keep 3.5 raw wpa u r gonna die. u really dont wanna keep less than 8 peasant per acre... so 60% draft is as high as u can push it assuming lord honor and ~6% pop sci (i would personally go for 57% but thats just my own style)

dont try to play a/t/m, u'll get pwned if u face any decent player. instead of keeping 2.5 raw tpa, just keep 1~1.5 and get 10% WT instead

u also have too few guilds (even as mystic). u cant afford to waste mana on self spells, so u gotta make each one count, plus take consideration of incoming land. also guild % affects the length of duration spells u cast on ur enemies as well

this is the building i would recommend (ill keep ur high homes and no rax cuz i assume that fits ur style):

20% homes
7% farms
18% TG
7% forts
15% guilds
15% towers
10% WT
8% stables


assuming u have 29 pop per acre (lord honor with ~6% housing sci, combined with his 20% homes), and keep 1.4 raw tpa, u'll have approximately 47~48 mod dpa (full elites out), 70~75 mod opa, 3.5 raw wpa and a little above 8 peasants per acre. if u keep 57% draft u'll have ~45 mod dpa, 65~70 mod opa and almost 9 peasants per acre with the same wpa and tpa

[cjt207]

what elite:def spec ratios are you assuming?
I currently run 3 elites: 2 def specs...

[waheed]

im assuming u r using elites for offense and no off specs

for defense elite and def specs are the same value so it wont make a difference

at 29 ppa and 60% draft with 1.4 tpa, it gives 16 military troops per acre (not including thief). if u put 8 on offense and 8 on defense, thats 8 x 5 x 1.2 (assume 120% DME, pretty safe assumption with 200% pay, 7% forts and MP casted) = 48 mod tpa. for offense, its ((8 x 6) + 5) x 1.35 (8% stables give 5 horses per acre, or 5 raw opa per acre. 135% OME is a pretty standard assumption if u keep 18% TG, 200% pay and have honor bonus even if u dont include generals) = 71.55 mod opa

of course those # are ideal, in reality u r not gonna face an opponent with ur province nice and shiny like that. but the same can be said for all other races as well

as for the 29 pop per acre, a province has 25 raw pop per acre. with 20% homes its 26.6 pop per acre. lord gives 2%. assume 7% housing sci, thats 26.6 x 1.02 x 1.07 = 29.03. if u have baron honor u'll have 29.6 pop per acre

[toast]

if you have the time to pump don't use the mystic personality. as like you said is not practical for casting MS, so dont.

you can mage just fine with ~3 raw wpa if you only casting storms/greed/pf etc.

[cjt207]

I've been implementing the suggestions by waheed (which were very good btw) and I've gotten pretty close to 100% BE (with my current sci included; not completely finished conversions but close).

Comparing the benefits of the current build given by waheed between mystic and artisan personalities - I'm strongly leaning towards artisan.

This makes me wonder if I can shave some % off towers & farms...

With artisan what is minimum farm % I can safely get away with and where should I shift the building % to?

[Ishandra]

I wouldnt drop farms below 8% unless you have a fair bit of science in there, incase you get hit with Vermin/drought/no runes for FL+NB all the time.

I definitely wouldnt reduce towers as an arti, or its pointless being Arti ;)

[cjt207]

I invest considerably in food science. I can manage 7% farms with ~50% food science bonus; but, as I plan to be artisan I imagine I could run far lower farms than this.

My intention to reduce tower % (with artisan personality) is to have the same supply of runes I would have as mystic personality with a lower percentage of buildings dedicated to this building type. I invest greatly in rune production sci.
This doesn't make artisan pointless; it gives me the opportunity to increase my building % to other areas.

I have been able to manage sufficiently on this amount of runes this age.

As far I can see on angel, 12% towers with artisan is roughly equal to 15% towers with mystic...

[Ishandra]

So your taking a personality, to free up around 3% acres from towers and 2% acres from farms?

I can think of some personalities that will be giving you more benefit than 5% more land.

IMO only go Artisan if you plan on taking towers, homes, then maybe stables/dungeons reasonably high, so you actually make use of it.

You shouldnt be taking a personality as a bandaid, thats like being a warrior so you dont have to run any rax or merchant so you can drop banks and lower homes. Its just crazy :P

[cjt207]

So your taking a personality, to free up around 3% acres from towers and 2% acres from farms?

That's the gist of it.
I was thinking of modifying the build strategy provided by waheed to this:
20% homes
5% farms
20% TG
8% forts
15% guilds
12% towers
10% WT
10% stables

I can think of some personalities that will be giving you more benefit than 5% more land.

I would welcome your suggestions.
Tbh I'm not sure of what other alternatives are available for me to run with this race and my playing preferences (A/M).

[_greenie]

I would welcome your suggestions.
Tbh I'm not sure of what other alternatives are available for me to run with this race and my playing preferences (A/M).

please tell me you are joking...

warrior -> less rax
merchant -> less banks
sage -> more pop sci, less homes

and the MOST obvious choice for an A/M... mystic
that would save you 7.5% immediately with 15% guilds =)

(btw, when did mystic loose its +20% rune production?)

[insane33]

As greenie said.
If you really want to play A/M with elf, you could stict to mystic, or warrior/merchant/sage would be a fair pick too.

If i really want to play A/M, i would pick dark elf tough, elf a/m is mainly for pitfalls imo.

[cjt207]

I currently am playing elf mystic; but, as I said earlier in this thread it hasn't been practical for me to use MS on a regular basis during wars so I was seeking advice different personality/build choices for improvement.

[_greenie]

just cause you cant do MS constantly doesnt mean you shouldnt go mystic...
otherwise i would say sage or merchant would be your best pics =)

[Ishandra]

Sage might end up being better as you can get increased rune production from sciences as well as achieving higher mod wpa/tpa.

Also better food, income, etc etc. Just means you need to invest some money in science from the get go to make it worthwhile.

Mystic hasnt had 20% rune production in the last 2 ages, not sure before that.










By the sounds of it your looking to be A/m, rather than A/M. If you wanted M you'd be using FB/Tornadoes if you didnt have MS, in which case Arti would work but you'd need 20% towers to perform. It could be done but you'll be losing some military buildings.

If your running TD and Mystic, wouldnt you be better suited to being T/M at the minute also? Drop the TG for some forts and more towers and your there.