Quote Originally Posted by Takeshi 02
Democracy without Capitalism is just mob rule. If 51% of a population democratically votes that your property is not yours but the communities or another persons.. well that's when you can have a democracy that is almost indistinguishable from socialism. Democracy tempered by capitalism and the free markets, well that was the American experiment.. and until people understand that government does not and can not create wealth, merely tax it or take it, there will ever be an endless succession of tech bubbles, housing bubbles etc. due to the governement misallocating resources and picking and choosing which businesses will survive via government subsidy.
Democracy is a form of government where authority is vested in its citizens. Socialism is an idea of how property and ownership is structured within a country. Democracy and socialism are two completely different ideas, so they can't be "indistinguishable from eachother." You can have a democratic socialist country, where the people would decide how to distribute the wealth. The American experiment had nothing to do with capitalism, it had to do with a representative democracy which hadn't been seen since the early Roman empire. Capitalism was alive and well in Europe when America was formed, and was merely adopted from there.

Quote Originally Posted by Takeshi 02
Ultimately it comes down to this, politicians invest other peoples money for future votes benefiting themselves; and private citizens invest their own money for future profits for their own benefit. If there is only one thing in this world that I don't doubt, it's how strong of an influence self interest is. Politicians, both Republican and Democrat don't deserve praise right now, they need to be reminded that the money that they spend so freely is not theirs by right, but by consent of the governed and political good will can be quite fickle..
Politicians don't invest. Here's what actually happens. Millions of Americans go out and take their savings and invest it in companies. Some companies fail, which normally doesn't mean anything. However, this time some large companies failed. This, in turn, affected other companies, causing them to fail. Now you've got the beginnings of a crisis. I call it a crisis because all of those people at the beginning that invested their savings are now broke and harassing our politicians asking "Why weren't you watching out for MY money?" They are panicking, because they just made bad investments and lost their life savings. Now apply that to our current situation. You have the three largest auto makers in the US. IF they collapse, we lose not only them but a significant portion of our economy in the business they conducted (dealers, mechanics, parts, scrap metal, lights, tires, etc.). Would the gap get filled? Absolutely. But how long would it take to replace them? Not to mention all the people who are now broke and/or unemployed and pounding on the Senator's door angry or needy. Once again, crisis mode. So the politicians, in an effort to appease their constituents, are attempting to prevent that crisis. However only the lazy ones would be content with throwing money at them; the smarter politicians are trying to demand oversight and/or regulation.

Quote Originally Posted by Cultist of Personality
The government of the state of Michigan has done its best to tax all manufacturing out of existance. The rust belt became such thorugh overregulation and overtaxation, as well as unsustainable employee benefits and pay due to union coersion.
Michigan has the 6th highest state income tax, and 4th highest sales tax, and 17th highest property taxes, making it the 10th overall largest tax burden in the USA(www.taxfoundation.org) which I believe lead to that state being one of only 3 states with negative economic growth in 2006. Add to that a regulatory environment that ranks it third worst for business in the nation ahead of only California and New York (www.chiefexecutive.net) and it should amaze you that the big 3 have survived as long as they have in Michigan.
The only tax you named that a BUSINESS would pay is the property tax. Maybe also the sales tax if and when the business makes a purchase. Income tax is paid by individuals, not businesses. The "unsustainable benefits and pay" you mentioned are not a result of the union, but of the 6 figure and up junior executives and the entire corporate branch. The companies need to be restructured. And I'm not going to start on unions, mostly because I'm out of time.