Human Rogue A/T more help

[quazzle1]

OK my last post asking for help with a human rogue ended with a large argument between two poster please dont happen again :)

Im wondering as human rogue would I be better going with elites or offspecs for my offence also what would be a good tpa to have in war? Another thing is should i be using homes in pump mode and where would you recommend I put my science when im pumping?:)

[clawzzz]

elites definitely.
why would you want homes for a pump. peasant pump?
thievery science should come first if you're warring, to be an effective thief. your raw tpa can't be that high now i suppose...

[AFKain]

Elites. TPA differs a lot depending on what kind of thievery def you think the provs you will be opping will have. Probably like 3-5 before applying mods. Homes are not pump buildings. Can't really tell you what science split you should have but normally you shouldn't really ignore any of them. Pop/BE/INC are usually considered more important than the others, thievery will be important as well since you are an A/T.

[Syiss]

Guess I'll say it again, elites for sure. TPA depends on what type of kingdoms you war. 6 mod tpa is probably a good spot to aim for against low and mid level kingdoms. Homes are no good for pumping, you should have a low draft already during a pump, so the extra peasants wont help your BE. IMO for Humans go for income > pop > tools first, which will increase your ability to pump effectively, then fill the rest as needed. If you don't have a lot of pump time make sure you get some decent thief sci before your first war.

[VT2]

Get 4+ raw TPA, almost all-elite offense, then rock people to death.

[Cheech]

Elites no doubt.

Homes are debateable for a pump. Since your elites only have 3 for defense it greatly reduces your ability to turtle. The extra peasants each home provides will still not cover all of the jobs even at 45%-50% draft, so they will all still be employed. At about 30% banks or more they won't give too much extra gold a piece, but each home gives you 8 extra peasants which can be very nice when coupled with your racial modifier on top of the banks on top of science you already have.

[Catwalk]

The nice thing about homes for pumping is that you can keep them afterwards. If you compare 30% banks + 10% homes with 40% banks, even if you were to earn the same amount with both you'd have larger conversion costs afterwards. Will be interesting to see if people get enough science to make libraries worthwhile this round, if so the same logic applies for them.

[Ethan]

Cat hits it square on: conversion costs matter.

I personally recommend cycling between a "pump" strat at 50% draft and a war strat at 60% draft. Keep enough homes to be at 100% base BE. Only swap rax, and Dens, don't even swap out the TG. (It scares some people off to see most of the offense sitting there.) And try to always keep a high sci rate at all times... even in war I sometimes still run active.

2 raw TPA might work, 3 will be better. I recommend keeping BE up around 110-120% range, and get -99% losses from Dens. So around 30% dens, 20% libs, 15% rax, 15% food/guild/tower, 10/10 fort TG split. Thin on ME mods, but big mod tpa (+70% dens, +70-100% sci, so 2 raw -> 5.4 mod, 3 -> 8+).

Elites, as others mentioned, are key. When you factor in the land needed to house them, they are more NW efficient, as well as letting you turtle somewhat. In fact, they were very NW efficient at 5.5 NW, then they got a .25 NW drop.

But the key point - don't "pump" - *always* get sci. OOW, don't go below active, aim for active even in war unless you absolutely need the cash.

Think Different

[quazzle1]

Oh another thing should I expect to be getting hit a lot because I am and my KD is getting annoyed about it?

[Soulja]

that depends on WHEN are you getting hit a lot. if its just before a war, they might be trying to disable you, but if you are getting hit oow, it might mean your def needs to be higher?

[Utopia4life]

if you need more ppa while keeping the same armys, one way of increaseing income can be by use of homes (run calculations to make sure your gaining about as much from this as you are from banks/schools/liberies or whatnot instead)

[poodimus]

Yea sorry about that.

for the pump i'm running right now i've got 40% banks and 15% libs and 20% schools. The libraries are definitely worth it. At 200 bpa for alch you get +6.4% inc for housing you get +3.9%.

so at that science level libs won't get you more peasants but the other bonuses in addition will make it come out on top. Unless you're really counting on the homes birthrate bonus i guess.

I haven't been a theif in a long time but i used to run around 5 mod tpa and i did fine. NS ftw!

As for the order of science learnings alchemy > Housing > Tools after you reach around 150bpa in alch start putting it in the next one and you should be fine.

Elites fer sure, if you have a high TPA as well they'll have real trouble knowing how many armies to send. unless they're smart and look at the defense of who you hit so they can tell how many elites you sent but nothings perfect.

Although in war i would train off specs for your offence and just pump elites oow.

hope this helps

[lightning reverand]

you should keep 10-15% homes till you get like 7-10% pop sci..after that you can remove them..but without them i dont think you will be able to play A/T as human...right now..since your pop will be stretched a lot...if u r hit..your BE will crash.

[waheed]

what you REALLY need for a pump are banks/thief den/guilds/forts.

if u r gonna convert to pump mode u might as well get everything done in one shot. thief dens are needed if u r active enough to search for money targets. if not spread them out into guilds/banks

forts allow you to keep lower draft and still maintain good military. in addition, generally in pumps u release off spec and retrain into elites, and u dont have much def specs to start with. 10% forts and MP gives almost 70dpa with 7 def spec and 3 elites per acre in fortified (pretty typical for a prov in pumping) and u'll be safe to most ppl on the server (ur nwpa should be quite low). and if u r only looking at money generation, 10% forts will allow u to keep AT LEAST 1.15 military unit per acre less than no forts, thats better than what 10% banks can do (keep in mind that its 10% ADDITIONAL banks on top of the 30~35% u r already keeping).


to sum it up, back when we use to do pumps with humans, our buildings looked something like this:


1. Homes: 100 (10%)
2. Farms: 70 (7%)
3. Banks: 300 (30%)
4. Forts: 100 (10%)
5. Guilds: 300 (30%)
6. Thieves' Dens: 130 (13%)

either that or no homes and spread those into guilds/banks

[_greenie]

i dont see why you need forts....