The Irish did not use suicide bombs, true, they just used bombs. They did target civilian targets, including pubs. The crux of the argument being, the IRA gave warning before a bomb went off. In general they did not wish to kill, but would do so if their threats were not taken sufficiently serious.
I am fed up of reading about hostilities. I am fed up of watching the UN be incapable of stopping at a traffic let alone capable of stopping military action. Following the Georgie crisis with Russia was bad enough, and no doubt Georgia was not 100% innocent in that, but they still were in a David and Goliath situation and there were no slings/stones.
Israel and Palenstine have issues - agreed. The UN is a waste of space. The USA is riddled with Jews who pressurise politics into doing what's best for Israel. Give them credit, very cunning, but i get so bored of watching Israel get away with military action because AMERICA looks the other way. I also get fed up that anti semitism even comes up in debates as an accusation... just cause you criticise doesn't mean you're antisemitic. In a way, the Middle East has always been fked with by Europe, specifially France and England, and the USA. You can understand their outrage, but you cannot condone suicide bombing designed to do the most damage possible. I was in London for 7/7 and it is days like that you can understand why people want to hit back, but where does it get you? Nowhere. It just gets you more dead lying in the streets. Beg the UN for peacekeepers, if any of them get hurt, then it will be a new ball game. At the minute it's like two squabbling children that have bunked off school.
But it was not a wide spread tactic of Poland and it was not in a western country (east Europe is eastern...).
They are not only hiding inside civilian population, they operate from withing the population (for example, they launch rockets from schools). According to international law, the responsibility for civilian deaths is theirs, because of this.
I was referring to both. I think it's kind of obvious that if you bomb civilians you value their death more than your own life.
So lets say it's all the UK's fault - It doesn't help us at all.
What they believe does not justify what they are doing. If anything, it calls for the world to intervene and take control of Gaza (get an Arab/Muslim country like Malaysia or Saudi Arabia to do it), educate the population and work to build their own country instead of concentrating on the destruction of Israel.
Bombing Gaza is hardly a long term solution, but it is a course of action taken after eight years of continuous fire of rockets on Israeli cities.
I don't know where you live, but I doubt you'll agree to live in terror of rockets fired on your city (even if the enemy is out gunned and brainwashed).
Last edited by Mourhelm; 04-01-2009 at 15:20.
IF YOU LIVE IN PALESTINE AND HAMAS BUILDS AN AMMO DUMP UNDER YOUR APARTMENT BUILDING...you better move before it gets bombed.
hamas is using human shields.
when planes take out ammo dumps or a rocket pad, it might be next door.
Hamas puts military installations near civilian residence for a reason.
that reason is to create public disapproval for israel action. But that is OK because the palestinians that lived on that ammo dump died for allah!
US and israel will aid and protect the Palestinian people without religious opression and propaganda.
Iran, and Hamas only care about the Palestinian people so far as they are weapons that change public opinion about israel and the palestinians are a tool to use in their holy war and jihad.
you infidels better wake up and read that,
Last edited by 1eye; 04-01-2009 at 16:28.
Hamas has no place to go, and they don't use human shields. Israel on the other hand, has many times used palestinians as human shields when entering houses of suspected militants. They pick out a random palestinian, and let him enter the house at gunpoint. This has lead to a few deaths.
Btw, 46% of all the wounded are women and children. 24% of the dead are women and children.
Today Israel bombed a market place, and killed a mother and her 4 children, injuring dozens of civilians.
How do you explain this? It's a massacre, it's state terrorism.
ABS vs Rangers
Also, USA is a much more religious society than the palestinians in the west bank. I guess you didn't know that.
Plus, how can you blame Hamas for the massacres? If your father hits you, is it his fault if you kill him for it?
If someone beats you up, is it your right to knock on his door and shoot him later?
Ofc not. YOU are responsible, and ISRAEL is responsible for their own actions.
ABS vs Rangers
No, I call them jews, Knesset, Prime minister. Did you know Israel funded Hamas? Not anymore, but Hamas is strong BECAUSE of Israel, they wanted to split the palestinians and they wanted a weaker PLO.
Also, did you know that Iran is the country in the middle east that has the most jews except for Israel? About 50k jews live there, in peace and harmony.
ABS vs Rangers
You give AMERICA way too much credit. You also make it sound like there are no other opinions in America.
There are plenty of Israel haters in America and plenty of Palestinian lovers and more America lovers than both together. Each pushes for it's own direction.
I assume you live in America because you seem to think that only America has a voice in this world. According to you, the other parts have no voice what-so-ever.
I totally agree.
Of course I can condone suicide bombings aimed at civilians. You can do it too.
Look at the history. There was a joint french-USA UN force in Lebanon. It was changed after it was bombed by Hizbulla (IIRC).
UN peacekeepers are worthless. The UN is worthless.
Yes they do. There's no point talking to you if you can't agree on facts.
It's true it happen in the past in order to protect Israeli soldiers. Our supreme court ordered the military to stop that activity and it has.
You are so biased you don't even bother showing the Israeli death statistics.
All I can say about that is that Hamas should stop hiding their ammo in market places.
Of course your father is responsible for your death if he kills someone and then hides behind you for protection. He shouldn't use his children as meat shield!
No, it's not your right. There is a police for that.
It's too bad that Hamas Kills people and not only beats them up.
since i was a young boy, my grandparents read to me a my parents taught me and the bible teaches me to love thy enemy.
walk the path of the god while you are alive and have a chance to make a difference, fighting will not get you there.
love thine enemy
i read the Koran,
it told me to kill people that try to attack or denounce Allah
it told me to kill anyone that changes their religion other than islam
the koran teaches that you will be killed and you will never see heaven unless you live and die for allah because this prophet is the greatest forever.
i just want everyone who reads this to know that i love you and jesus loves you no matter what you believe, and no matter how you act, you will be forgiven in the eyes of the lord if you repent and try to make things better. we are mortals and we make mistakes. our father in heaven understands this and he is a kind god. that is what i believe
i am not a religious man, i do not preech, but i just wanted everyone to know the alternatives. the problem is when your government or your ayetolla burns all the books, and controlls your knowledge. i guess some people know no different, and they attack what is different because that is what they have learned. we must love and forgive them, but we cannot let them lauch rockets at us either. let us live a great new year, and remember that there are many people enduring loss at this time , we must love and support them
Last edited by 1eye; 04-01-2009 at 20:04. Reason: god bless you my friends, jesus loves you even if you launch rockets you will be forgiven
"women and children" is not a valid claim.
The terrorist organization known as HAMAS trains women to be suicide bombers. The news happily categorizes anyone under 18"children", except Hamas also trains 14-17 year olds as suicide bombers and front line fighters.
One HAMAS leader (who was killed by israel a couple of days ago) sent his own kid son to be a suicide bomber..
That is not to say that innocent civilians aren't hurt. they are, which is horrible and sad.
But when israeli civilians are hurt its because hamas fired a rocket with the intention of killing them. when palestinians do it's generally because hamas cynically used them as cover and camoflague.
Get it, hamas is a tool of iran. They care nothing for the benefit of palestinian people, who are tools and cover for them.
Or they wouldn't have taken over gaza in a brutal military coup, and wouldn't have used all their power and funding to smuggle in rockets and mortar shells instead of building parks, residence, schools and so on.
Then you have to ask, how is it that the West Bank, another area ceded to palestinian control by Israel, ISN'T shooting rockets at civilians targets in Israel?
Last edited by Lightzy; 04-01-2009 at 20:43.
I just wanted to say "LOL".i just want everyone who reads this to know that i love you and jesus loves you no matter what you believe, and no matter how you act, you will be forgiven in the eyes of the lord if you repent and try to make things better. we are mortals and we make mistakes. our father in heaven understands this and he is a kind god. that is what i believe
I think what Stoffi was trying to illustrate is that there is a big difference between the actions of Hamas (rockets) and Israel. The response is very disproportionate, in terms of civilian casualties and terror I think that Israel's actions are the worst act of terrorism.It's too bad that Hamas Kills people and not only beats them up.
It could be because the west bank isn't under siege and being starved.Then you have to ask, how is it that the West Bank, another area ceded to palestinian control by Israel, ISN'T shooting rockets at civilians targets in Israel?
Edit:
Forgot to ask about this, exactly where in "international law" is this stated? It sounds to me like something made up to lessen the burden that civilian casualties has on the inventor's mind.They are not only hiding inside civilian population, they operate from withing the population (for example, they launch rockets from schools). According to international law, the responsibility for civilian deaths is theirs, because of this.
If you strike a target knowing that there's a risk/certitude that civilians will be killed you decide that striking the target is worth the civilian casualties. Using a reasoning that says that civilian deaths aren't the responsibility of the one who actually does the aggression against them would mean that you could nuke gaza and still claim that it was hamas's fault...
Last edited by AFKain; 04-01-2009 at 21:54.
Lets make it a nationalpark, where desert animals can live while no people can.
War has been upon the area for 2000 years.... and it will continue for 2 more as long as there is religion.
i like desertfoxes, they have big ears.
You obviously know very little of Hamas. Hamas have built a huuuuge amount of schools and welfare institutions for the civilian population of palestine, that's part of the reason why they are so popular. But once something nice gets built, Israel bombs it away.
I suggest you get your facts straight before posting bs like this.
And according to your logic, any child COULD grow up to be a suicide bomber, and therefore must be killed.
Bombing Gaza won't stop the rockets, quite on the contrary.
And btw, it was Israel who made Hamas start firing rockets again, since Israel kept bombing Hamas in the shadows. Hamas got sick of this, and decided to respond. But your media won't talk much about that.
And injuring 1500 children/women and killing 100 kids vs a few rockets in the desert and a few killed is just plain wrong. The real terrorist here is Israel. Just today they bombed a market and killed 20 ppl. Even if there was a hamas leader in that market, Israel shoulldn't have bombed. Israel is a racist, apartheid state which believes their race is superior to others because they supposedly are chosen by a god not that many believe in.
ABS vs Rangers
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