Israel, it's about time!

[1eye]

I just wanted to say "LOL".
.

do you really say "LOL"?

[AFKain]

I just did in that part you're quoting didn't I?

[Nemo]

i read the Koran,
it told me to kill people that try to attack or denounce Allah
it told me to kill anyone that changes their religion other than islam
the koran teaches that you will be killed and you will never see heaven unless you live and die for allah because this prophet is the greatest forever.

You are a bigger dolt than I thought. There's a line in Surah Al-Kafirun: For you, your religion, and for me, my religion.[link:http://www.ahadees.com/english-surah-109.html]

Did you know that there were people of different religions living under the protection of the prophet when he took over Mecca? Guess not. Ever heard of Sufism, the fakirs? Those who believe that everything is created from God's light and thus nothing shall stay forever in hell and in the end, hell shall be destroyed for it will have no purpose? Guess not.

Those liberals are still there. But you screwed up there chances.

No religion is perfect though.

Mournhelm:

So lets say it's all the UK's fault - It doesn't help us at all.

Of course it doesn't. Neither does bombing Gaza.

What they believe does not justify what they are doing. If anything, it calls for the world to intervene and take control of Gaza (get an Arab/Muslim country like Malaysia or Saudi Arabia to do it), educate the population and work to build their own country instead of concentrating on the destruction of Israel.

Have you forgotten? Osama Bin Laden was Saudi. The extremists Muslims are more pronounced in the Middle East, thanks to the reasons I highlighted before. And other Muslim countries don't really like Israel much either.

I don't know where you live, but I doubt you'll agree to live in terror of rockets fired on your city (even if the enemy is out gunned and brainwashed).

Then leave, since it's not your city in the first place.

Edit: Ignore the last bit. I said I wouldn't bring it up.

[Elb]

If I could convince the rest of Aus and all of israel, i wish they would give up the middle east and move all and sundty to Australia. We have the land, but it needs the balls to ignore politics and irrigate the bloody country, something the isrealis have done

facts speak for themselves. jews were in palestine. after ww2, more were settled and israel was created by people who felt they controlled the world and who felt bad about ww2. then the ARAB MUSLIMS attacked the jews. AND LOST. MULITPLE TIMES.

move on ffs. luckily iran will eventually piss enough sunni's off that the palestinians will lose all sunni support

[stoffi]

If I could convince the rest of Aus and all of israel, i wish they would give up the middle east and move all and sundty to Australia. We have the land, but it needs the balls to ignore politics and irrigate the bloody country, something the isrealis have done

facts speak for themselves. jews were in palestine. after ww2, more were settled and israel was created by people who felt they controlled the world and who felt bad about ww2. then the ARAB MUSLIMS attacked the jews. AND LOST. MULITPLE TIMES.

move on ffs. luckily iran will eventually piss enough sunni's off that the palestinians will lose all sunni support

I think you forgot a teeny-weeny bit of history here. Palestinians lived in every settlement/city that is now jewish. Then the jews came from Poland, Russia, USA, Italy, etc etc and immigrated to a country they never ever had sat their foot on, and had no legal claim to. More and more came, and those who already lived there obviously disagreed and they protested like any normal person would do.
Who knows who started, but there were some terrorist incidents from both sides in the late 20's, and many different jewish terror organisations were formed and slaugthered both palestinians and british. They terrorized the entire region. They even offered to fight alongside with the NAZI's against the british.
This kept on till the UN decided to make Israel and Palestine, but this wasn't enough for the jews and they grabbed 24% extra land. In doing this, the jews tried to ethnically cleanse the land of palestinians, and they butchered entire villages and made hundreds of thousands of ppl flee from their land.
NO ONE will accept to loose their land like that, and they had the support of the Arab nations and war was declared. However, Israel was much stronger than ppl thought and Israel grabbed even more land.

Even Switzerland would go to war if someone one day came in and grabbed most of their land, and threw the swiss out.
NO ONE would stand still and NOT declare war.

The jews STOLE land to create Israel. And have since that ethnically cleansed more and more land, and kept the palestinians in a prison with no rights. And therefore the palestinians have EVERY right to fight back.

Today, even more children got killed btw.

Hamas has killed 5 ppl in total, while Israel killed 520+ and injured thousands. 46% of all injured are women/children. This shows how little the israelis care about avoiding civilian casualties. They couldn't care less about them.
This is the very same retoric terror organisations use, those civilians protect and support their enemy, so they must die.

So how can anyone now say terror organisations are wrong to bomb civilians when Israel is allowed to do it?

[stoffi]

And why bomb police stations, hospitals, universities, market places, homes, government buildings, etc?
What wrong did the police man at the police station do? He fights crime, solves crimes. What made him a bad guy? He did NOTHING to hurt anyone.

[stoffi]

And in todays newspaper, you can also read about the israelis bombing farms where families live, killing all their stock. And I should add that no Hamas ever lived on those farms.

This is pretty nasty, but I truthfully wish that Hamas puts suicide bombers inside Israel, preferably Tel Aviv, and they find a Israeli solder and kill him, alongside with 30 civilians. This would be a legit target for Hamas, since Israel would not care either. Israel deserves to feel some of the terror they have unleashed upon an entire ppl, who did NOTHING wrong, except being born palestinian.

[Mourhelm]

I think what Stoffi was trying to illustrate is that there is a big difference between the actions of Hamas (rockets) and Israel. The response is very disproportionate, in terms of civilian casualties and terror I think that Israel's actions are the worst act of terrorism.

Israeli citizens hide in shelters, Palestinian civilians acts as human shields.

If Hamas cared about it's civilians it would take them away from the fighting and you'll see fewer civilian deaths on their side.

I'm sure you know nothing about terrorism if you say Israel's actions are "the worst act of terrorism". What kind of terror are you suffering from in your country?

It could be because the west bank isn't under siege and being starved.

Where do you get your info from? Gaza was not starved before the military action and even during the current action Israel itself sends humanitarian aid into Gaza.

Edit:
Forgot to ask about this, exactly where in "international law" is this stated? It sounds to me like something made up to lessen the burden that civilian casualties has on the inventor's mind.

If you strike a target knowing that there's a risk/certitude that civilians will be killed you decide that striking the target is worth the civilian casualties. Using a reasoning that says that civilian deaths aren't the responsibility of the one who actually does the aggression against them would mean that you could nuke gaza and still claim that it was hamas's fault...

First, Israel does take into account the civilian casualties even when it strikes military targets. For example, as far as I've heard, Hamas hides rockets under the hospital in Gaza (like they hide it under mosques). Despite that, Israel doesn't target the hospital from the air and kills everyone in it.

For similar reasons Israel doesn't nuke Gaza.

Secondly, a few things about international law:

Protected civilians must NOT be:...
- Used to shield military operations or make an area immune from military operations.

This quote is taken from http://www.ppu.org.uk/learn/texts/doc_geneva_con.html#4

This was taken from an Arab TV station: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMjSo...layer_embedded

I would like to see the entire interview if you can link me to it.

[Mourhelm]

You obviously know very little of Hamas. Hamas have built a huuuuge amount of schools and welfare institutions for the civilian population of palestine, that's part of the reason why they are so popular. But once something nice gets built, Israel bombs it away.
I suggest you get your facts straight before posting bs like this.

They also got a huuuge amount of rockets, and they are firing them from these schools. Israel doesn't bomb schools. it bombs terrorists launching rockets.

And according to your logic, any child COULD grow up to be a suicide bomber, and therefore must be killed.

You are an extremist that has only black or white in his head. While you are right that anyone can be a suicide bomber, it doesn't mean that you must kill him.

Anyone can be a murderer, a rapist, a pedophile or a terrorist. Are you saying we must kill everyone?

Bombing Gaza won't stop the rockets, quite on the contrary.

Bombing rockets and terrorist will make Hamas less able to launch rockets. The plan is to get safety first and peace later.

And btw, it was Israel who made Hamas start firing rockets again, since Israel kept bombing Hamas in the shadows. Hamas got sick of this, and decided to respond. But your media won't talk much about that.

You should re-read my first post in this thread.

I'll start by saying that it doesn't matter what people say and what facts they quote. People will always believe what they want to believe and find a way to justify their actions.

And injuring 1500 children/women and killing 100 kids vs a few rockets in the desert and a few killed is just plain wrong. The real terrorist here is Israel. Just today they bombed a market and killed 20 ppl. Even if there was a hamas leader in that market, Israel shoulldn't have bombed. Israel is a racist, apartheid state which believes their race is superior to others because they supposedly are chosen by a god not that many believe in.

Where do you get your data from? Why do you present only the Palestinian side?

[Mourhelm]

Mournhelm: "So lets say it's all the UK's fault - It doesn't help us at all."

Of course it doesn't. Neither does bombing Gaza.

Bombing Gaza destroys the rockets that Hamas uses to fire at us. I'm sure we won't wait for their ammo to run out, but it will surly change the amount of rockets fired at our civilian population.

This operation is not intended to get peace. It is intended to bring safety.

Have you forgotten? Osama Bin Laden was Saudi. The extremists Muslims are more pronounced in the Middle East, thanks to the reasons I highlighted before. And other Muslim countries don't really like Israel much either.

Are you trying to say that Saudi Arabia is a terrorist country? I don't think Osama Bin Laden represents the entire Saudi or Arab population.

Every country has its own extremist. Keeping them out of the game is the only way to get peace.

[Mourhelm]

I think you forgot a teeny-weeny bit of history here.

I don't think you can give history lessons to people given the fact that you don't know history.

Of course some of the things you say are true/have a basis of truth, but you clearly need some history lessons yourself.

So how can anyone now say terror organisations are wrong to bomb civilians when Israel is allowed to do it?

Yes, I can. Because of two reasons.

1. it's wrong to bomb civilians
2. Israel bombs terrorists that hide behind civilians. Israel doesn't bomb civilians.

[Mourhelm]

This is pretty nasty, but I truthfully wish that Hamas puts suicide bombers inside Israel, preferably Tel Aviv, and they find a Israeli solder and kill him, alongside with 30 civilians. This would be a legit target for Hamas, since Israel would not care either. Israel deserves to feel some of the terror they have unleashed upon an entire ppl, who did NOTHING wrong, except being born palestinian.

I see you're here to war, not to talk. I'm done with you.

I wish no terrorist will ever hurt you. Your family will probably say it's an acceptable loss.

[AFKain]

Israeli citizens hide in shelters, Palestinian civilians acts as human shields.

I think that Palestinian civilians would happily accept if you were going to invite them into your shelters instead of their unprotected homes which could be blown to pieces at any time...

If Hamas cared about it's civilians it would take them away from the fighting and you'll see fewer civilian deaths on their side.

First of all, where would the civilians go? Secondly the civilians aren't on anyone's side, they are civilians, that's the definition... Thirdly, do you think that Israel is responsible for civilian deaths if a Palestinian suicide bomber kills an Israeli soldier and a number of civilians? I doubt it, nor do I.

I'm sure you know nothing about terrorism if you say Israel's actions are "the worst act of terrorism". What kind of terror are you suffering from in your country?

I did not mean for what I said to be interpreted in the way you do, my opinion is that of the two acts of terrorism that I was comparing Israel's is the worst. I think that is clear when reading the sentence in its context but if I'm wrong about that I apologize for the confusion.

Where do you get your info from? Gaza was not starved before the military action and even during the current action Israel itself sends humanitarian aid into Gaza.

The blockade cut off Gaza from the rest of the world, most goods had to be smuggled in and of the necessities there were a bare minimum. Every day I see reports of how there is not enough medicine or fuel or electricity, just this morning I saw an estimate that said that there is only flour for 2 or 3 days more.

a few things about international law

No according to the geneva convention it is not ok to use civilians as shields, but nor is targeting civilians... Both Israel and Hamas are guilty here. For the record it does not say "if you use civilians as shields it is your fault that they die" as you indicated earlier. This is a quote showing that the killing of civilians is also prohibited:

1. Persons taking no active part in the hostilities, including members of armed forces who have laid down their arms and those placed hors de combat by sickness, wounds, detention, or any other cause, shall in all circumstances be treated humanely, without any adverse distinction founded on race, colour, religion or faith, sex, birth or wealth, or any other similar criteria.

To this end, the following acts are and shall remain prohibited at any time and in any place whatsoever with respect to the above-mentioned persons:

(a) Violence to life and person(...)

http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/92.htm

About your clip there, all this barrister does is answer whether Hamas has any claim against Israel according to international law. It is not about whether Israel's actions are legal. Also, 34 secs into the clip there's an obvious cut, right after the question "surely this isn't proportional?" then 1 minute in there's a pretty strange answer to the question asked ("targeting areas where you know civilians will die is against international law?"), I can't say if that's been manipulated though since they change cameras at that point. However at 1.08 it is again clearly visible that the clip has been edited. I don't think that the clip has any value whatsoever to your claim about international law.

[stoffi]

I don't think you can give history lessons to people given the fact that you don't know history.

Of course some of the things you say are true/have a basis of truth, but you clearly need some history lessons yourself.



Yes, I can. Because of two reasons.

1. it's wrong to bomb civilians
2. Israel bombs terrorists that hide behind civilians. Israel doesn't bomb civilians.

Would you care to elaborate where I am wrong? Got anything at all to back you up?

630 palestinian children are injured and are now at the hospital. You say it's wrong to bomb civilians, then you say Israel doesn't bomb civilians. You need to face reality. Israel DOES bomb civilians. 2 experienced norwegian doctors are down there, doing their best. 630 children!
Israel IS bombing civilians, and Hamas does not use them as human shields. They are normal children, walking about, hiding at home in their house, going to the market, hiding from rockets. 630 children ffs!!!!

How on earth can you legitimize bombing 630 children? Sounds like terror to me.
And most males injured/killed are also civilians, family fathers trying to protect their family. Israel is a brutal, killing machine, a nation of terror.

[stoffi]

Israeli citizens hide in shelters, Palestinian civilians acts as human shields.

If Hamas cared about it's civilians it would take them away from the fighting and you'll see fewer civilian deaths on their side.

I'm sure you know nothing about terrorism if you say Israel's actions are "the worst act of terrorism". What kind of terror are you suffering from in your country?

During the french revolution, the ppl starved and the queen supposedly made a famous quote that showed her ignorance. The ppl had no bread, so she asked why they didn't eat cookies instead....

Your post is like this. They don't hide in shelters because they haven't got any! And Hamas can't take the civilians away from the fighting because there is no place that is away from the fighting! This is the most populated area in the world, there is no space.
What do you expect Hamas to do? Round up all Hamas soldiers and put them in one house and then ask Israel to just bomb that house?

Gaza is the worst place on earth right now, there is no place worse. I would prefer to live in Somalia instead. No one is safe in Gaza, every family living there has experienced deaths because of Israeli bombings, killing all they can.


And face it, Israel DOES bomb civilians. Thousands lie injured at the hospital, and hundreds lie dead in the streets. Wake up!

Hamas are no saints and they should stop sending rockets into the desert, but Israel is by no means justified to butcher the civilian population of Gaza, and it's not Hamas' fault. I don't see a gun against the Israeli pm's head, the Israelis do this, not Hamas.

If a small child stomps on your foot, are you entitled to rape him and his family? Is it his fault you raped them? NO! You are responsible for your own actions, and so is Israel.
If that logic is used, USA is responsible for all terrorist actions across the globe since they pissed the terrorists off. The terrorists had reasons for , no doubt. USA have bombed them and betrayed them. But that doesn't justify terror actions!