Viable T/M - Elf/rogue!?

[amarr85]

Our kingdom is designating 6 players to be higher nw Thief/Mages to hit down on kingdoms we war. 3 mystics 3 rogues.

I'm considering Elf/Rogue. Primarily for +1 Mana hr & +1 Stealth hr. During war I think thats 16 more total ops/spells daily. I would use only def units (no elites). Running max possible wiz/thieves per acre (obviously).

Protection :

10% homes
10% farms
12% towers
33% banks
35% guilds

War :

12% homes
8% farms
10% towers
20% banks
15% guilds
20% TD
15% forts

I might be off my rocker with these thoughts, but so far its my only alternative to gnome/mystic. And DE have become so expensive and no + stealth so they dont attract me anymore.


-Thanks for constructive discussion!

[Lead Pipe]

6 t/m's is overkill for any kingdom.

In your kingdom planning, you are "putting the cart in front of the horse"

When deciding on a race/pers setup, the first thing you need is attackers. How many players will you have? 25 active people, 22, 18, 15? If you're in an average kingdom, expect only about 18 provs. to contribute on a consistent basis. If you have 1/3 of your good people as t/m's the kingdom will get ripped to shreds. If you do happen to have a kd with 25 active players, 4 t/m's is the most you need.
Slot your ppl like this:
1. attacker
2. attacker
3-15. attacker
16. support
17-19. attacker
20. support
21-23. attacker
24. support
25. support

attackers can be pure attacker, a/t, or a/m
support can be t/m, a/t, or a/m

[uzziah]

You'd be better off running 50/50 dspecs elites so that you can use those 6/4 elites to attack while playing T/M, You have QF and can split those 15% forts into TG and Forts without much effort. a T/M should be able to make some bottomfeed attacks durign war, even if it's just one per day.

And why are you running banks as a T/M? You should be able to do well without 20% banks if you're playing T/M you're not going through the troops that other attackers or hybrids are going through, which means you can push your dspecs or elites up a bit and use lower payrates since you just have to hold defense. A good T/M can run 50% Payrate without much issue then those 20% banks just means you have a ton of extra gc coming in per hour that you're not using so you can push sciences, even 10% banks with 10% in guilds or TD's would be better for a T/M.

[amarr85]

i'm more concerned with what you think of elf/rogue strat.

we have 25 prov, 20 very active, 5 mediocre active.

[Lead Pipe]

ok, I'm not a fan of elf/rogue. If you are going to be a t/m, consider what each combo can do:
elf/rogue - magic is gonna be pitfalls and fireballs. good thievery
delf/rogue - magic is tog, nightmares, and fireballs, it wont need towers and it will have a better defense. good theivery
gnome/rogue - magic is only fireballs. excellent theivery
elf/mystic - cast ms, pf and fb. average theivery
delf/mystic - cast ms, tog, nm and fb. above average theivery. good def.
gnome/myst - cast ms, fb. good theivery

IMO i'd rank them in this order of usefulness: de/mystic, de/rogue, elf/myst, gn/myst, elf/rogue and gnom/rogue last.

* thats as t/m's. many of those combos make nice a/t or a/m (not elf/rogue though)

[R.R]

I'm considering Elf/Rogue. Primarily for +1 Mana hr & +1 Stealth hr. During war I think thats 16 more total ops/spells daily.

Offensive ops/spells cost 2% during war. So you're looking at half a thievery and half a mage op per hour. 24 extra ops per day.

Im not a big fan of Rogue for Elf. Elf is probably better off with Mystic because it has no thievery bonus, but several huge mage bonuses and self-spells benefitting from extra guild effectiveness.

If your KD is set on going 3 Rogues and 3 Mystics, I'd leave the Rogue personality to 3 Gnomes (Humans are awesome A/T, but lack the M power) and let 3 Elves/Dark Elves take the Mystic roles.

[amarr85]

fantastic input guys i like it. a few things..

I think if elf/mystic or elf/rogue is played as pure T/M the first half of the age you're right it could convert to t/m +attack second half of the age. This weighs a bit on honor you've hit.

The only two reasons elf would be a choice is

Elves
+ Magic Effectiveness : +30%
+ Mana Recovery / Hour : +1

mostly everything else is attacker bonus.


I do agree as gnome/rogue you can run more guilds in place of the extra banks & TDS. As well in a pinch steal runes to top off whatever you're missing.

What sort of build strat would you push for gnome/rogue who wants to have a very solid mage build too?

8% farms
12% homes
8% towers
20% banks
30% guilds
12% TD
10% forts

just a prelim. more thoughts?

[guitar89]

fantastic input guys i like it. a few things..

I think if elf/mystic or elf/rogue is played as pure T/M the first half of the age you're right it could convert to t/m +attack second half of the age. This weighs a bit on honor you've hit.

The only two reasons elf would be a choice is

Elves
+ Magic Effectiveness : +30%
+ Mana Recovery / Hour : +1

mostly everything else is attacker bonus.


I do agree as gnome/rogue you can run more guilds in place of the extra banks & TDS. As well in a pinch steal runes to top off whatever you're missing.

What sort of build strat would you push for gnome/rogue who wants to have a very solid mage build too?

8% farms
12% homes
8% towers
20% banks
30% guilds
12% TD
10% forts

just a prelim. more thoughts?

hurm..i'll say drop off some of your guilds for TD..30% of guilds is quite alot except when u wants to pump up ur wizzies really fast..split your guilds n TD something like:
15% guild
27% TD
put more on TD and less on guild during war. As a gnome/rogue u wants to maximise more on ur thieves ops and having less loss on theivery and do a some basic spell as a mage.

[Ishandra]

15% Guilds is nowhere near enough for a T/M during war, especially a rogue.

The more you have, the higher duration your ops last for. PF, Greed, Storms etc. Also less mana wasted on self spells with longer duration.

I'm running Elf/Rogue as an A/T next age, dont see why it wont work as a T/M.

[xian_kgx]

I think you can just throw away the homes, they don't do s**t anyway. ;-)

[boom]

I think you can just throw away the homes, they don't do s**t anyway. ;-)

Fail.

[amarr85]

Top two t/m combos imo are as follows:

De/ Rogue
Elf / Rogue

These two can "best" maintain balance between mage and thievery.

Houses won't ever be out :)

[Ishandra]

DE/Rogue is a waste now since +1 stealth removed, better to focus on your magery which has 30% More damage. Mystic best helps guarentee the WPA to land your high end damaging spells.

Rogue is good for AW to open up magery targets, but you will likely have A/Ts that can do that for you while massacring.

[Dvorak]

keep in mind when you are performing 33% more ops due to +1 stealth that you have +33% more theif losses. You will find it very hard to sustain your tpa in war, even with TD.

For that reason I suggest gnome/mystic if you want to have good T and M.
Rune costs are offset by the fact that you can generally find a 20k rune/op target during wartime. I don't know if it's the best option, but it's a good one.

[Waterbox]

I still like DE just for having nightmares. Elf is good at being more durable, but I really think DE can do more damage singlehandedly. You could take one day and ns/nm a province down in your nw range then outgrow him and move on to the next. Elf is better all around due to their ability to defend themselves better with lower losses and those killer self spells.