They didnt say anything about it in their changes. They just said instead of spec credits orc will get elites credits. You must note that they cant be used to train specs. Not that it matters, but if your offence is fine and you need def, you still need money to train them.
If OMAC decided to change the rate at which credits were given to Orcs, then they should have written it in the changes as this would make the decision different to play them for people.
Stables generate free offense, and are not affected by BE. Past a certain % of TGs, your acres are better spent in stables for trying to max out offense. Try to follow these calcs.
Assume 100% BE at 1k acres and 3000 ogres with 100% wage (unrealistic, but it will work to demonstrate).
If you run 10% TGs and 0% stables you will have 0 horses and a bonus of +13.51%, yielding (8*3000+0)*1.1351 = 27242.4 total offense.
If you run 5% TGs and 5% stables you will have 3000 horses and a bonus of +7.11%, yielding (8*3000+3000)*1.0711 = 28919.7 total offense.
This deficit always exists until you max out your horses, and is only more pronounced when your BE drops below 100%, or run a higher % of TGs. The fact that you played an Elf/Warrior without them is pretty unbelievable.
Don't be foolish, use stables.
Last edited by boom; 27-01-2009 at 20:53.
Like I said I have never used them and I have always whatever Kingdom I have been in managed to be a top hitter. It is probably because I ran lower WPA and TPA and had more military.
But like I said I have never ran them, and I wont be running them this age either! :)
Depending on next ages changes I might have to see what all the fuss is about and run them for a change.
Its good to see some numbers on this, but this thread is about Orc/Warhero, which I wont be using stables in.
That's fine and dandy Job.
But I'm trying to give advice based on facts, not personal testimony.
Be sure to run stables Saatana.
Orc/Warrior
10% homes
7% farms
5% guilds
3% towers
15% hospitals
30% rax
10% dungeons
10% stables
10% TG's
70% draft after dungeons are filled. The idea being with elite spec credits it should cover my economy well enough to utilize land in a better manner than banks/arms. Aiming for 8 hour attack times. High dungeons to counter my weak magic side, let them fireball my pezzies, I'll hardly have any. Do a 2 tpa, and possibly if I get hammered on the thieving end I'll drop rax and hospitals 5% and throw up some WT's. The idea is to lure people into attacking me rather than my KD mates. Relieve the pressure on keeping pezzies, attack loads, and the more attacks I make/take the more plague spread. In the end, my + to gains, OOW attacks, and the bonus attacks I will take should help my KD win wars.
That's my idea, but I play a suicidal maniac attacker.
And when did I ever say that you were wrong or tell anyone not to run them?Originally Posted by boom
All I said that *I* was not going to run them. I really dont care how anyone else plays, I play the way that I play best and since I have never used stables I dont see why I should start now. Like I said I might bring them in the strat for next age but it wont be for this one.
boom:
Crunch stables vs. forts, forts give just about the same op and better opnw than stables, and I calculated at just 80% BE. At 90% BE or more forts will be much better than stables.
(If anyone doesn't know, forts add to offense by decreasing the total amount of dspecs you need to maintain static defense ex. to maintain 40 dpa)
If I'm wrong, correct me.
Stables aren't an effective building, unless the offensive unit of your choice has strength-5.
Plus, you have to wait age for them to be filled.
If you need an offensive boost, have your buddies send you cash, or steal horses from people.
Just don't build stables.
Catwalk's crusade for legalized cheating was a stunning success, with ghettos and low-tiered teams everywhere losing their wells of knowledge to better kingdoms in the process.
Step one: replace everything that works.
Step two: blame the predictable epic fail on outside forces.
Step three: keep the community informed that no progress has been made since the last update.
Step four: thank you for your patience.
Ax:
Forts run off the same formula as TGs. The relation is very similar to the TG to stables relation. There is an optimal combination of the three that will let you have more off/def than with just any two of the three. This depends on your BE of course. The higher your BE the less effective the stables will be.
vt:
I agree, if you are able to steal horses to ensure that you can break targets it can work out quite nicely. However, after balancing the use of the stealth elsewhere, the decreased losses you sustain when using maxed horses on every hit, and the higher range of possible targets, it's really closer to a matter of personal preference and depends highly on what role you play in your kd. An A/T will probably find it more effective to burn the stealth elsewhere, whereas an A/M probably wont. Also, if you could point me to some theorycrafting about stables working for 5/*, but not 6/*, I would appreciate it.
Assuming the orcs goes into every war with 3 raw tpa somekinda A/T could also work after mid age when you really start getting good gains from learns,do 6-8 learns on gnome/rogues with huge thievery eff science and you should have 50% + yourself giving a mod tpa between 5-6... If not NS then enough to rob gold/runes to the mages
Boom, there are several flaws in your calculation.
1) you assume that the province has 3 offunits/acre.
10 would be more realistic. Here are your numbers:
80k raw op.
80000*1.1351 = 90808
83000 (5% stables=3k ponies)*1.0711 = 88901.3 op.
Which one produced more offense? The tgs.
2) You are assuming the tgs are the only offmod present. Each additional offmod makes TGs stronger than stables. i.e. generals provide 9% additional offense. 1.09*1.1351=1.237259, while 1.09*1.0711=1.167499. The difference between them becomes 6.976% off, while before it had been 6.4%. Wages increase the gap as well, as does honor. Then on defense [forts]; mp, wages, forts all increase the gap.
3) You assume that the question can be answered statically. Of course it can't. Generally, it is safe to assume that stables are not worth it for an orc, however.
The real question is:
is 60*[your offmod] > the offense generated from 1 acre of forts or tgs? Most people won't calculate it to that level, so -- 1% vs 1%. For a 1k acre province, that's 600*their offmod vs 1% tgs -- what that 1% is worth depends on their current offense, and other offmods, and how many tgs they have.
Stables also tend to be better if your BE is worse, since it doesn't use BE to generate offense.
Then there's the whole issue of the ability to destroy horses via being hitting; theft, attacking, blah blah blah.
Essentially; the higher your raw offense, the better tgs are. The lower your raw offense, the better stables are. (stables are functionally additional raw offense, while tgs increase offense you already have)
Last edited by Zauper; 27-01-2009 at 23:19.
Zauper said it exactly in his last sentence, what I also calculated. There is a break-even, when TGs becomes better than stables depending on the offense. This depends on Be, current offense, current TGs, ME etc. The break even is relative high, so non orcs are safer with stables.
This also means(and is interesting) that the best maybe a combo of further TGs and some stables.
Last edited by didy; 28-01-2009 at 05:41.
assuming you have enough horses to horse all your off, stables become more effective than TGs after around 12% tgs.
anything past that essentially is better used as stables. again, assuming you have enough land after those 12% to build stables enough to have horses n all off units.
#Beastblood
rule #12 no dutchies allowed.
--Amendment 1.1: <3 LDP mucho much
--Amendment 1.2: <3 chrissi
--Amendment 1.3: snirpsner is by far the best dutchie ever. <3
--Amendment 1.4: Prot and Darkie are OK in my book.
p.s. sending horses with your troops will reduce your troop losses.
#Beastblood
rule #12 no dutchies allowed.
--Amendment 1.1: <3 LDP mucho much
--Amendment 1.2: <3 chrissi
--Amendment 1.3: snirpsner is by far the best dutchie ever. <3
--Amendment 1.4: Prot and Darkie are OK in my book.
lol why would it reduce? lmao
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