http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/28/us...tml?ref=dining
Now as most of us know, China had severe sentences for most involved in the melamine casea. Are they right are wrong? Considering 7 dead so far, what are your thoughts?
http://www.justicenewsflash.com/2009...090125647.html
I'd rather they were locked up for life, if they had known the possible results of their actions.
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
I don't generally agree with capital punishment in any form as it's hypocritical and antiquated. Only undemocratic, despotic and corrupt countries use it, like China, Iran and the United States.
However, in this instance I don't feel especially bad for the condemned. At least China uses a humane method of execution, unlike the other two aforementioned countries.
I don't generally agree with imprisoning people for life as it's barbaric and cruel. Only backwards, arrogant and corrupt countries use it, like the United Kingdom and the United States.
So what's the alternative for death penalty then? Would you rather that serial murderers and child molesters be released after 7 years?I don't generally agree with imprisoning people for life as it's barbaric and cruel.
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
I would rather they stay in prison as long as necessary to ensure they not be a threat to people and society again.
You see, there's two kinds of people in this world, my friend. Those with loaded guns... and those who dig.
You dig.
the whole point of punishment is to make people fear the consequences so that they dont commit crime.
what we need is some nasty torture that carves the person's eyes out and then have someone with aids pee in it or something. that'll drop the crime rate
on a more serious note tho its a waste of tax payer's dollars to keep a prisoner in prison for the rest of his life. those money can be spent on stuff like education or health care and save good people who deserve to be saved.
Last edited by waheed; 02-02-2009 at 07:47.
The death penalty actually costs a huge amount in the US. Info below.
Aside from that, how can any civilized country condemn a person to death with the logic "it costs too much to keep them alive"? Especially when you compare these costs to the United States' $711 billion military spending in 2008. That's 48% of the entire world's spending on military in that year.
Info on death penalty costs here.
A quotation from that site:
Report of the California Commission on the Fair Administration of Justice
* “The additional cost of confining an inmate to death row, as compared to the maximum security prisons where those sentenced to life without possibility of parole ordinarily serve their sentences, is $90,000 per year per inmate. With California’s current death row population of 670, that accounts for $63.3 million annually.”
* Using conservative rough projections, the Commission estimates the annual costs of the present (death penalty) system to be $137 million per year.
* The cost of the present system with reforms recommended by the Commission to ensure a fair process would be $232.7 million per year.
* The cost of a system in which the number of death-eligible crimes was significantly narrowed would be $130 million per year.
* The cost of a system which imposes a maximum penalty of lifetime incarceration instead of the death penalty would be $11.5 million per year.
You see, there's two kinds of people in this world, my friend. Those with loaded guns... and those who dig.
You dig.
"I don't generally agree with capital punishment in any form as it's hypocritical and antiquated. Only undemocratic, despotic and corrupt countries use it, like China, Iran and the United States.
However, in this instance I don't feel especially bad for the condemned. At least China uses a humane method of execution, unlike the other two aforementioned countries."
The first paragraph is hypocritical when combined with the second.
America is both traditionally and currently more democratic than the UK, neither America or the UK are especially "despotic" or despotic at all, America is no more corrupt than the UK.
China uses three methods:shooting through the heart; shooting through the brain and lethal injection, the first takes about a minute of death agonies before death being pretty inhumane, the second takes about 4 seconds and this is only if neither is blotched which they occasionally are. Hanging and the electric chair are about as humane as a shot through the brain, though honestly no method of execution currently used is "humane".
"The death penalty actually costs a huge amount in the US. Info below.
Aside from that, how can any civilized country condemn a person to death with the logic "it costs too much to keep them alive"? Especially when you compare these costs to the United States' $711 billion military spending in 2008. That's 48% of the entire world's spending on military in that year."
Very silly argument! How can one advocate keeping murderers alive because it's cheaper-shame on you and anyone making that brain dead argument.The cost argument also never counts the cost is blood and treasure of sparing them. They sometimes murder other inmates and guards in prison or maim them.
Now who's making silly arguments? You are actually saying that it is right to execute a group of people because some people of that group may kill/hurt someone? Following that logic you could start wiping out the whole human race...Very silly argument! How can one advocate keeping murderers alive because it's cheaper-shame on you and anyone making that brain dead argument.The cost argument also never counts the cost is blood and treasure of sparing them. They sometimes murder other inmates and guards in prison or maim them.
People are falsely convicted of crimes they haven't committed. Executions are irreversible. This alone is enough to warrant the abolishment of executions.
the purpose of capital punishment is not killing for the sake of killing. its to scare ppl so that they dont commit crimes.
ppl can say what they want about ethics or human rights, but consider this. china is a DEVELOPING country with a government system thats still in the process of maturing, and with a HUGE population and HUGE difference in income and education within the population. yes they are not perfect and they have made mistakes, and some ppl got over-punished, etc. but overall, given their situation, they have done extremely well. and think this, if china's system is as weak as lets say canada's, it wouldve been 1000 times more chaotic and nobody will dare to travel to china
A totalitarian state like China that didn't have the capital punishment would still be as effective in keeping its population in check, China's "order" shouldn't be attributed to the death penalty and nor should this order be portrayed as the result of a working justice system that could be used in a democratic country.
Also I encourage you to prove any effect on crime that capital punishment has over imprisonment. Just stating that it is a deterrent isn't enough. On that note, shouldn't the US be a much safer place than Europe since there are only a couple of countries on the whole continent that still have the death penalty?
A murderer has no right to life, but sparing them certainly condemns other innocents to death. The official re-murder rate is over 8% and murder is a very easy crime to get away with, meaning the real rate is much much higher, in contrast the falsely convicted and executed is a tiny percentage, lol, around half of those on death row are there for their second murder conviction!Now who's making silly arguments? You are actually saying that it is right to execute a group of people because some people of that group may kill/hurt someone? Following that logic you could start wiping out the whole human race...
People are falsely convicted of crimes they haven't committed. Executions are irreversible. This alone is enough to warrant the abolishment of executions...Also I encourage you to prove any effect on crime that capital punishment has over imprisonment. Just stating that it is a deterrent isn't enough. On that note, shouldn't the US be a much safer place than Europe since there are only a couple of countries on the whole continent that still have the death penalty?
This is a bit hypocritical I must say, your policy on people that kill innocents is that they have lost their right to live and yet you have no problems with society killing innocents?
BTW when you're citing statistics like you just did it is good to show where you're getting your numbers from, that way we can know they're not coming from FOX :)
of course capital punishment is not the single factor that keeps ppl from committing crimes. what im saying is the current china is willing to put ethics aside to achieve order and keep the majority of citizens safe
the situation in china is difficult for westerners to understand, mostly because theres a HUGE gap between the rich and the poor, and theres SOOO MANY incentives for the poor to commit crime. the country is under rapid development and there are many other problems they need to fix. for developed countries ethics may be the basis of everything, but for developing countries its still a luxury. perhaps in the future when china fixes the corruptions and population problem then they can move on to ethics and etc. the country has undergone quite a bit of **** in the past century and its not easy to steer it back on the right track. unfortunately this is not something statistics can fully explain, nor something ppl from developed countries can fully understand. western media has been quite aggressive towards china and evaluated their policies based on those of developed countries, hence china took a lot more criticisms for what they cant do (yet), and no credits for what theyve done right
again im not saying killing innocent ppl is correct. im just saying that singling out china in an issue like this is not really appropriate. perhaps in the future when the country is fully developed and more serious issues are fixed, then they can be criticized for human rights. but that time is not now. there are more important problems to fix.
and as for the issue with capital punishment, i have seen debates about it since as long as i can remember, and ive heard good arguments for both sides. i dont think theres truly a RIGHT answer, and it really comes down to a judgement call by the government. but ultimately, capital punishment is the most severe of all punishments. very few ppl actually receive it, and evidences are reviewed very carefully before they are sentenced to death. im 90% sure that in china even if u murdered someone u will only go to jail. u have to do something seriously seriously bad like serial murder or huge scandals before u get considered for death sentence
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