Copy Cats are recruiting

[Lordwarallied]

buttefly, Utopia isnt communism, or socialism, it isnt we must protect the weak. Its a game of concessions, diplomacy, politics, alliances, economy and war. dont bring to us your biased one way morals. its not because ud attack only to same size that it applies to everyone. specially for a 13 hits series of attack....thats not waving by the way. i dunno where you got that silly idea.

[jennahaze]

I'm torn on this one. I sort of agree with Catwalk, but there are parts of it that I don't like. That is part of the game. But I think there are better ways he could have gotten those acres. Catwalk, why didnt you pick 6 or 7 different kingdoms that were smaller than you with undefended provinces to give your guys some acres. It would be a lot less damaging to a kingdom that has just left a war especially if that KD is significantly smaller than yours. Waving a KD that you know has no chance isn't exactly honourable especially when you know they just left a war. Thats pretty bullyish.

On the other side of the coin, we left a 6 day war not so long ago and were SUPER fat. Everyone pumped defense for 48 hours and we went fortified for a couple more days. We kept ALL of our acres with only 2 or 3 random grabs in and out of our kingdom. If you wanted to defend your land you probably could have.

But we all have different aspects of the game that we respect and ones that we don't. Catwalk respects "Hotile" tags, but not "Rebuilding" tags. Tell me Catwalk, do you respect "IntraProblem" tags? Cause its hard to check and see if those are legit but if a KD is going through a civil war, or political reshuffle it would probably be pretty hard for them to organize any sort of retaliation.

I've been random grabbed by someone who actually sent me a msg saying that the hit was a retaliation because another guy in my KD stole some gold off him. If you leave lots of gold lying around, someone is going to steal it. So 100k gcs is worth 120 acres.. where was I when they tought that in honour school. So I ambushed him. I would have been less disturbed and probably not done anything if he hadn't sent me a that stupid message trying to justify the attack with his scewed reasoning. People do dishonourable things for dishonourable reasons. Thats kind of what makes the game what it is.

[Catwalk]

Catwalk, why didnt you pick 6 or 7 different kingdoms that were smaller than you with undefended provinces to give your guys some acres. It would be a lot less damaging to a kingdom that has just left a war especially if that KD is significantly smaller than yours.

We were unpumped ourselves, having just left a war. We had very limited targets, but needed more acres on our orcs in order to pump. This doesn't do more or less damage just because they're fresh out of war, in fact if you're unpumped being waved definitely does less damage.

Waving a KD that you know has no chance isn't exactly honourable especially when you know they just left a war.

But there are plenty kingdoms that have no chance, due to either general weakness or pumping. In this case, the kingdom in question chose to skip straight into pumping after war. They had 48h to recover if they so desired, they chose to pump instead. Why should that give them a get-out-of-wave card?

If you wanted to defend your land you probably could have.

Precisely.

But we all have different aspects of the game that we respect and ones that we don't. Catwalk respects "Hotile" tags, but not "Rebuilding" tags. Tell me Catwalk, do you respect "IntraProblem" tags? Cause its hard to check and see if those are legit but if a KD is going through a civil war, or political reshuffle it would probably be pretty hard for them to organize any sort of retaliation.

I don't respect a HOSTILE tag point blank, if we think they're a good target we'll usually CE to check if it's valid. If it's a minor amount of hits exchanged, we might not consider it a hostile. As for internal problems, as you said it's hard to check. A civil war can be checked, and I can't imagine we'd wave into that unless we wish to intervene on either side. They'd still be fair game for random grabs, though.

I've been random grabbed by someone who actually sent me a msg saying that the hit was a retaliation because another guy in my KD stole some gold off him. If you leave lots of gold lying around, someone is going to steal it. So 100k gcs is worth 120 acres.. where was I when they tought that in honour school. So I ambushed him.

And if you hit a kingdom who are capable of taking a conflict with you, chances are they'll retaliate. Stealing from a kingdom is a hostile action, same as hitting them. I'd say he was rather polite to state that there was a reason for his attack, explaining their motives and possibly keeping a conflict from developing.

For the record, we just got hit with a full wave 1h out of war. We were planning to enter fake war 2h after leaving war due to being very fat and having a large pool to grab for pumping. We entered fake war as planned and retaliated those hits, preparing for further conflict now while taking and dishing out hits from the fake war. That wasn't dishonourable, just pissed us off and motivated us to get even with them. We could have gone for full 48h CF instead and repumped briefly to prevent waves, we chose to gamble on a large FW pump instead.

[clarey]

@jennahaze "...why didnt you pick 6 or 7 different kingdoms that were smaller than you with undefended provinces to give your guys some acres"
Bottomfeeding is bottomfeeding, whether it's hitting a smaller kingdom (I refuse to call 13 hits a wave), or hitting a province 80% of your networth. That is very much the only safe way to grow. You don't hit someone that is likely to hit you back (Common sense). Finding a good hit takes 20 - 30 minutes for me, more for others. Waving would save the time of his players, so CW can't really be faulted for that.

"Waving a KD that you know has no chance isn't exactly honourable especially when you know they just left a war."
As clearly stated, Copy Cats and QC left war around the same time. the 200% pop bonus helps alot for war recovery. I would guess that even though iwaru's kingdom is 70% smaller, his largest provinces could hit the small provinces in Copy Cats, and gain much more acres. It's only 13 hits. =P A smaller kingdom in a retal war, if dealt properly, wins. Thats out of war, of course.

But we all have different aspects of the game that we respect and ones that we don't. Catwalk respects "Hotile" tags, but not "Rebuilding" tags
You will find that many people leave Hostile / War / Rebuilding tags for no reason at all. A CE will clear that up.

@iwaru "I guess you didn't notice us having below 150nw/acres or that we had Rebuilding in our name either or even that we were in fortified stance. ".
You just stated very good reasons for kingdoms to wave you. (1) For being fat (2) For being in fortified and as such, having less retal ability. (3) Your papers wouldn't have shown you leaving war.

[Newark]

FW is for losers CW - which you just admitted you are.

[Catwalk]

Newark, I don't like FW and I support measures to stop them. But few top kingdoms refrain from using them, and it is not against the rules. Until that changes, we will be using them as well if we deem it necessary.

[MorbidAngel]

good post clare.

Newak, you're funny :]

[jennahaze]

Newark, I don't like FW and I support measures to stop them. But few top kingdoms refrain from using them, and it is not against the rules. Until that changes, we will be using them as well if we deem it necessary.

Sorry Catwalk but you are going to have to explain that one. You don't like fake wars and support measures to stop them... so participating in fake wars is a measure to stop fake wars? Hmm.. sorry, I don't quite understand the logic involved here. Could it be that the rumours are true. You will do anything to get in the charts, even things you don't believe in and are trying to stop.

Maybe the way to stop fake wars is to eliminate the charts. Although Catwalk might just quite if that were the case. That might cut down on the alliances. Just keep the age going until every kingdom is dead except for 1. Hmm. Survival of the fittest. Hmm... that gives me an idea... I'm off to the suggestions thread.

[Catwalk]

Sorry Catwalk but you are going to have to explain that one. You don't like fake wars and support measures to stop them... so participating in fake wars is a measure to stop fake wars? Hmm.. sorry, I don't quite understand the logic involved here. Could it be that the rumours are true. You will do anything to get in the charts, even things you don't believe in and are trying to stop.

Put it this way. I may disagree with having a nuclear facility in my town and lobby to have it shut down in favour of alternative energy. That doesn't mean I'm going to turn off my light. Suggesting that we'll do anything to get in the charts is rather silly, if you knew anything about our kingdom you wouldn't make that statement. My players complain from time to time that we don't do more to get a good chart ranking.

Maybe the way to stop fake wars is to eliminate the charts. Although Catwalk might just quite if that were the case. That might cut down on the alliances. Just keep the age going until every kingdom is dead except for 1. Hmm. Survival of the fittest. Hmm... that gives me an idea... I'm off to the suggestions thread.

Also a ridiculous idea, on top of the fact that external sites will make ranking lists on their own. I'll assume that suggestion wasn't a serious one. But please do troll some more.

[Spliff]

pathetic rubbish

[Catwalk]

Rejected Spliff, try again.

[jennahaze]

Put it this way. I may disagree with having a nuclear facility in my town and lobby to have it shut down in favour of alternative energy. That doesn't mean I'm going to turn off my light. Suggesting that we'll do anything to get in the charts is rather silly, if you knew anything about our kingdom you wouldn't make that statement. My players complain from time to time that we don't do more to get a good chart ranking.

Nuclear facilites eh... I think we are veering a bit off topic but I will applaud your unique attempt at a metaphor. Since it wasnt exactly the right for this scienereo it doesnt apply. You pretty much need electricity to live. You don't absolutely need it, thats why I said pretty much. I won't go too much into this, but lets just say you need it to live in the western world the way most people want to live. You don't however need to be in the charts to play Utopia or to have fun playing it. You are right, I don't know much about your kingdom other than what I read in your posts and other peoples posts. All I reffered to are the rumours that say you will in fact do whatever is neccessary to be in the charts. Obviously doing something you don't believe in is one of those things. Or you really do believe in fake wars in which case you should just say it.

and we don't intend to get there through safe growth (constant random grabs into ghettos and exploradicing) or farming honour from nubs. We'll be taking on other kingdoms near our own standing even if it means losing some

You seem to do other things you don't support to get on the charts so I am inclined to believe the rumours are true. Even if you don't consider waving a KD 70% of your size bottomfeeding (which is is), it is by no means "near your own standing". And if you or Lordwarallied don't think that 13 hits is a wave (which it is) then what is it considered? The only other catagory that fits is "safe growth" which is also something you said you guys don't do. You should either live up to the image to project in your recruitment post, or change your recruitment post to reflect the way you live. According everything you have said in this thread so far something like this might work for you:

"Although we dont like it or support it we will farm and grab KD's that are much smaller and can't defend themselves only when it is nessessary much like our fake war policy"

Also a ridiculous idea, on top of the fact that external sites will make ranking lists on their own. I'll assume that suggestion wasn't a serious one. But please do troll some more.

You're assumption is correct.

[Catwalk]

Nuclear facilites eh... I think we are veering a bit off topic but I will applaud your unique attempt at a metaphor. Since it wasnt exactly the right for this scienereo it doesnt apply.

It was fully valid. Whether or not we use FW will have zero impact on the game, will only mean that those who use it get further ahead. I've never believed in changing the game by changing people's behaviour, I believe in changing the game by changing the incentives you give to people.

You seem to do other things you don't support to get on the charts so I am inclined to believe the rumours are true. Even if you don't consider waving a KD 70% of your size bottomfeeding (which is is)

Where did I say semi-waving a smaller kingdom wasn't bottomfeeding? I may have expressed myself poorly, but I think you're misinterpreting something.

it is by no means "near your own standing". And if you or Lordwarallied don't think that 13 hits is a wave (which it is) then what is it considered?

Again, you're misreading something here.

The only other catagory that fits is "safe growth" which is also something you said you guys don't do. You should either live up to the image to project in your recruitment post, or change your recruitment post to reflect the way you live.

I answered this question already if you'll read up a little, and I did clarify the recruitment post.

[Realest]

you noobs are hating on CW for the wrong reasons. what he is doing is perfectly valid strategy.

[Catwalk]

Well, they're welcome to claim I'm a hypocrite. Valid or not, actions should match the ideals. I made a slightly incorrect about safe growth suggesting that we'll never do land waves on targets we believe will be high profit and low risk. I have no issues with doing that at all. Previous rounds we generally shied away from kingdoms fresh out of war, because vulturing them would be taking advantage of flawed game mechanics. This round it's fair game imo, if you want to be able to defend yourself fresh out of war you're perfectly capable of doing that with 48h recovery. It's tempting to pump instead because you're low draft, as iwaru's kingdom did. And it's never fun to be caught pumping, of course. But it's fair game.