Suggestions as to good tg/fort/stable optimization algorithm

[Ethan]

Firstly, please don't tell me about how "useless" static analysis and optimization is. I know it has limits, but I believe I am a stronger player because of it, therefore I will use it.

Secondly, please don't tell me "no forts". I am optimizing MPNW (DPNW + OPNW at a fixed off/def ratio). I may choose to run fewer forts due to "intangible" considerations, but I want to know the "optimal" number of each.


So the goal: find a way to take X% land at B% BE with M military units per acre (of strength O and D for off and def respectively) with a finial off/def ratio of R (aka, 3:2 or 2:1) and a fixed NWPA (before stables), and divide X up into TG, Fort, and Stables such that MPNW is maximized.

The question - how? I tried one approach in my simulation spreadsheet, but upon reexamining it, it stinks. It does better than splitting in 3rds, but it is clearly not optimal. No matter how high BE goes, it still has at least .1% stables. It was based on the idea of starting at the "corners" and moving towards the center, with the movement based on how much it "helped". It doesn't deal with discontinuities, and it doesn't deal with cases where optimal of a building is 0.

I also know I *could* write a "grid" approximation and refinement algorithm. Break the area up into 100 cubes, calc at each point, find the best 1, and do the same in a smaller grid around that point. This is NOT an algorithm that can be done effectively in a spreadsheet however, and it therefore requires rewriting the whole sim in C. (And worsening the user interface... cause I'm not writing a nice slick one in C just for this.)

So what else is available? Are there any good approximations that a spreadsheet can do? Are there any simplifications to the systems of equations we can make? Or is it just too hard?

[waheed]

lol

its very simple. to maximize "opnw" and "dpnw", just get 30% forts and 30% TG and draft 90%

ppl needs to step away from numbers. u need to optimize ur prov's PERFORMANCE, not numbers. that includes MANY things such as tactical advantages of having high offense, or flexibility. those kind of stuff cannot be put into simple numbers. different kingdoms or even different provs within the same kd will have VERY different requirements for fort/TG ratio. for example small suiciders do not need forts, while big provs or t/m might need a lot of forts. those kind of stuff are purely situational

[VT2]

If you weren't so busy thinking differently, chances are you'd have realized that by now.

[nfidel2k]

Problem #1: You are using a fixed offense/defense ratio. The point of optimizing TGs/Forts is that the O/D ratio will change to optimize your bonuses. A better way of looking at it is to calculate on a per acre basis using your minimum standing DPA. Optimization is achieved for TGs/Forts when you reach 50% land dedicated to each. Note: this is the ratio of the bonuses provided by both buildings. Also note that the most you can increase your OPA is by the percentage lost due to DBE. So the more land dedicated to both buildings, the larger the difference for optimizing your buildings.

I haven't tried to include stables into the equation because there are too many variable factors, making the equation extremely complex. Factors like the maximum number of effective war horses per attack.

[Realest]

if you truly wanna optimize, you go a 1:1 split as that will give you the best bang for the buck due to DBE.

[_greenie]

if you truly wanna optimize, you go a 1:1 split as that will give you the best bang for the buck due to DBE.

not quite...
that assumes the prov has 1:1 raw offense, as well as no stables...
even then... generals bugger up the calculation a bit (unless you only send 1 gen, but sending 4 means TG's are actually more efficient than forts at increasing "optimization")

you can probably (and i am going to hate myself for this)

optimizing MPNW

*shudders* by doing it without stables and a 1:1 ratio of raw offense to defense, but including stables and weird ratio's you are likely going to need matlab or some other maths program to analyst different ratio's and work out from there how to do it

on a slightly related note... WHY??!?!?!?!?!?!

[DHaran]

It's useless, and you are wasting your time.

[Realest]

it doesnt matter greenie. at 50/50% split, the mods are at it's highest so w/e number you are multiplying at, it doesnt matter - you are still getting the highest possible defensive and offensive mod.

Think about that for a sec.

[Bano]

im glad im pass this problem now.

[_greenie]

it doesnt matter greenie. at 50/50% split, the mods are at it's highest so w/e number you are multiplying at, it doesnt matter - you are still getting the highest possible defensive and offensive mod.

Think about that for a sec.

not quite...
because gens give +9% OME, your TG's are in affect 9% more effective (same goes for forts and MP/GP)

so, at 10% of each @ 100% BE, you get +13.5% OME/DME
but, because of gens/MP you actually have +14.71% OME and 14.175% DME and the next 1% of both, TG's will give you more of an increase than forts will

i mean, if you were really keen, and had NOTHING better to do in your life, sure, write a little program that will check whether the next 1% of forts/TG's will give you better #'s depending on raw OPA/DPA, and you can then make it recursive up to a certain % (i dont even want to consider stables in there)
but, honestly, 90% of the time, TG's > Forts, unless you are looking at over 20% of your land dedicated to it

[Realest]

i dont think you get it, optimization of TG and Forts means you use the combo that will give you the highest mod.

a 50/50 split gives you the highest modifier... this isnt really debatable...

[_greenie]

edit, nvm

[Toadi]

Think differently greenie, think differently.

[Tuskony]

It's useless, and you are wasting your time.

I love how someone is actually trying to contribute to this game and all you can say is "You're wasting your time."

You're a real champ.

[Realest]

Your mom wasted her time. She should of done the smart thing and flushed you down the toilet.

I love how someone is actually trying to contribute to this game and all you can say is "You're wasting your time."

You're a real champ.

if you're gonna call someone out, try not to look stupid yourself.