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Thread: The uses of Homes . . .

  1. #1
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    The uses of Homes . . .

    Well, apparently there are some contradicting opinions on these forums about the usefulness of homes. I personally am more of an intuitive player than I am a number cruncher, though I use Utopia Angel and run numbers myself occasionally. I'm fully aware that a purely intuitive player will get their backsides handed to them in a game like Utopia because, lets face it, the game is not intuitive whatsoever.

    For example, kingdoms in real history medieval periods could not sustain a standing army any greater than 1% of the total population, otherwise their economy, such as it was, would probably collapse. A ton of different variables factored into this, but the 1% is a standard rule of thumb when looking back at real world medieval armies. Of course, Utopia has "kingdoms" (i.e. provinces) running a minimum of 60% of the population as military. Not exactly intuitive.

    Another intuitive aspect is homes. People need homes to live in, right? Yeah, generally speaking, of course. But the poor people of utopia are forced to sleep in the corners and cellars of the armouries and training grounds . . . and perhaps some of the military men actually have barracks in which to sleep, but not even all of them . . .

    At any rate, Homes would be an intuitive choice. It also seems to me, with a cursory thought process (meaning not very deep), that they could be valid numberswise as well. More homes means more overall population, and while you'll have less space for effect-producing buildings, the buildings you do have should be working at maximum efficiency even while maintaining a very high draft rate. These are my theoretical and intuitive thoughts on homes. Can anyone explain to me where my thinking falls short?

    All I ask from responders is that no matter what opinion you give, you substantiate it with either numbers or a reason. Please just don't say, "Homes are the SUXXORS!!!" and leave it at that. . . (I know I just invited every troll and jerk on these forums to copy and paste that into a reply, but oh well . . . *sigh*)

    Thanks.

    Del

  2. #2
    Forum Fanatic gergnub's Avatar
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    just wait for vines to explain all the benefits of running ridiculous %-s of homes.

  3. #3
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    I wouldn't mind hearing both sides of the debate, actually.

    Del

  4. #4
    Veteran Drug's Avatar
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    If u have good sci and/or good honor, homes r pretty ftw, better than stables at least.

  5. #5
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    If you're a vines acolyte, anything less than 30% homes is FTL
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  6. #6
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    homes are ok if you have good sci or honor, or if you are gnome. They increase your population and BE, allowing you to run higher draft rate. They stack up pretty good when you compare them versus tgs/forts/stables etc.

    But, homes always look good on a static province, thats the problem with them. No-one is static in war. with homes you need to build em, grow pop, draft and then train your troops. With tgs you build them and instantly have +offense (same with forts though stables need to populate your horsies and they are slower). I wouldn't use homes as a major part of my strat unless i was a gnome, as their +pop boost and more effective homes make them more enticing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bishop View Post
    But, homes always look good on a static province, thats the problem with them. No-one is static in war. with homes you need to build em, grow pop, draft and then train your troops. With tgs you build them and instantly have +offense (same with forts though stables need to populate your horsies and they are slower).
    Ok, this line of reasoning seems to make sense to me. So the burden to overcome is that they are slow in producing the gains, especially as your acreage is in flux, especially because simply having the homes isn't necessarily the end, because you still have to train the troops, etc.

    Now that I have simply regurgitated what you just said, please correct me if I wasn't following your thinking.

    I am also assuming the bonus to pop given by homes is NOT subject to building efficiency but rather a static bonus. Yes, no?

    I'm still thinking that homes could be an attractive option for the "feel" of them. I know that means less advantage, less power, at least probably, but if they're not too much of an actual detriment, I might actually try them. I know its important to keep building efficiency up, otherwise those Rax and TGs won't give you as much effect, either.

    I guess we'll see.

    I haven't made up my mind in the least, however, as to what my longterm strategy will be, so please, continue to hash this out.

    Del

  8. #8
    Game Support Bishop's Avatar
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    yup, you follow - what race/pers are you btw?
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    Well, at the moment I'm Elf Mystic. Since the EoA has been declared, I'm thinking more about the upcoming age, using the end of this one to simply learn some ropes. If things don't change much for next age, I'm thinking Human Sage or Human Warrior and go A/T. The Sage looks a little more appealing as I love science and the internal workings of a province, not simply maxxing out draft, letting your BE plummet, and suiciding. . .

    It seems like homes could be of use with that kind of science emphasis. What do you think?

  10. #10
    Game Support Bishop's Avatar
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    hu/sa is good, if the age lasts long enough to accrue sci, homes will work nicely with good pop sci. merchant is always a solid choice for human.
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  11. #11
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    I run some homes on my gnome simply to save me from razing between hostiles.
    25% banks provides more hourly income, but it would leave my prov too weak if war breaks out so I go 15% banks/10% home. If theres no war, the homes are better than TGs for making money but if there is a war they are better militarily than banks. If war does break out, I don't build more homes just let them whittle down and build TG and stables.

    Gnome homes are much stronger than others, if I wasn't a gnome I'd probably not run homes at all. The amount of sci needed to make it worthwhile (30+% pop) is more than I would spend time pumping.

  12. #12
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    I'm running Elf Mystic, don't have particularly high science in anything.... I'm running 52% homes. It enabled me to lose the TG's, increase my offense by more than 30 OPA, my BE by 20% despite increasing my draft rate by 10% to 70%. So I am now running one of the KD's T/Ms and have more offense than all of the same size Orc pure attackers in the kingdom... The closest person to me is another elf mystic running a similar strat.

    Funnily enough if it wasn't for the fact the BE% is capped, we crunched numbers that gave you 16,000% BE.... it was hilarious to calculate that on 1k acres you could run 1 acre of farms, 1 bank, 1 arm, 1 tg, 1guild 1tower and 1 watchtower for way over max effect with the rest of the land in homes..... what an exploit that would be if BE and effect was uncapped.... we would have peasants PAYING us to be drafted as solds, then solds PAYING to be trained... also run 0 thieves with 1 wt at that - make sure everyone gets through, because successful ops would have inverse effect - just imagine the look on someones face "You send your thieves and the operation commences..... Our sources indicate the operation was a success! You thieves have given 50,000gc to the enemy lol.

    Anyway, yes homes are brilliant, but you need to be definitely running more than 20% and in fact I would advise go to a min of 30% to really reap the benefits to the whole province.

  13. #13
    Needs to get out more VT2's Avatar
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    The viscount has drank too deep of vines' brew.
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  14. #14
    Forum Fanatic freemehul's Avatar
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    vines is the borat of the utopia forums. dumb as hell, but quite entertaining
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  15. #15
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    Could you guys hating on homes please substantiate your claims instead of just saying how stuipd it is to use homes? The people advocating homes are atleast giving their reasons. Whether they're good or not, at least they are giving them. So please, if you think homes aren't worth it, go into a little detail as to why.

    Thanks.

    Del

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