HaLL Press Release! HaLL farms and they love it!

[DHaran]

5 minutes? pfft, try 2 minutes.

[Spheric]

The logic and ethics in here are dismal.

You can't ambiguously proclaim that a timeframe of hostility exists, and thus expires, after the last attack was made by the aggressor Kingdom. You don't know that the aggressor of the initial wave isn't being opped to hell and back, so you can't use what's in the paper (or what isn't) to justify double-hostiles. If on the '8th hour' you get a spread of riots and other ops or whatever, and then a third Kingdom concludes that the hostile is 'over' and waves, clearly they're benefiting from the initial hostile situation in process between the first two Kingdoms. Additionally, what if the aggressor Kingdom intends to conduct a second wave (greed/feud/whatever)? Who are you to intervene on their conflict just because 8 hours have passed?

If the recipient of a wave offers a CF, it's still only an offer that has yet to be accepted, thus the hostility continues to be active until such a time that the CF is closed.

If the recipient of a wave offers a CF, which is subsequently accepted, and either Kingdom is in turn waved by a third, this is valid as their hostile is closed. More specifically here, if the aggressor Kingdom makes the mistake of being prepared to close the hostile and finalise relations despite having armies out, it's their own error of being in a position with no relations and them being left defenseless. If they are prepared to close relations with everything out, then they have to live with those consequences; there's little difference between a full wave of randoms and having no relations which puts them in exactly the same position.

Regarding 'Scenario 2', it is not acceptable for any Kingdom to wave either of the two initial Kingdoms involved. Kingdom 'D' has seen that C waved A, thus the intent is obvious and both are in a 1v1 hostile situation.

An active hostile between two Kingdoms, even if one is not making visible attacks, is always active until such a time that the CF is closed or if 48hrs have passed; the reason for the latter is that you can see from a full CE that no attacks have transpired between both Kingdoms. There could be one situation where the recipient of a wave ops the aggressor continually despite making no hits, but the aggressor would continue hitting thus there isn't going to be a situation where both are idle, hence the hostile is continually active.

If you're held to ransom by someone keeping a button on you, then it's your responsibility to plan for that eventuality.

[MorbidAngel]

24 hours is fine i think, 8h is too little

[khedrei]

stoffi, I won't argue with you, especially if you are going to be childish about it. Enough people here have proven your logic and invention of rules to be foolish. Spheric said things very well and I agree with his points.

Just because HaLL lives by their own set of rules doesnt mean they make sense.

I also didn't whine about anything. I stated a situation about something that happened which by your rules seemed to be ok. Just because it was a real scenerio and not on made up on the spot like the ones by MA and greenie doesn't make it whining.

[fuzzy|LLD]

khedrei "Just because HaLL lives by their own set of rules doesnt mean they make sense."

This is the exact reason why HaLL leaders and a few other un-named leaders from various uto factions are in the process of trying to define and set standards in regard to things like 'What is a hostile' and so on - so that all of uto will have some guidelines because yes as you all notice everyone has different views on various matters and thats somewhat down to the fact there are only game rules but no inner game rules (gamesmenship / ethics).

If there is a server wide code of conduct agreement things will be alot easier to monitor and enforce because there cannot be different views.

Anywho I hope that makes sense.

Peace out rabbit

[MorbidAngel]

Awesome, hall is trying to set standards. I see how it started...

[MrCaid]

Well, maybe I should stop responding to things regarding "HaLL", "standards", "Double hostiles" and "gangbanging".

Since it's all wrapped up in ruels I couldn't possibly comprehense, I'll just sit back an read the talks until I cannot hold back no more.

My emotion during this reading is completely private, of course.

[stoffi]

so, the week long hostile we had with snowflake last age... where we only did hits on the 24th of the month, cause meter was maxed, that doesnt count as an "active hostile" for most of the time?

btw, we often managed 20+ hits in the 5 mins before month change =)

Only you hit or both hit?

[stoffi]

Awesome, hall is trying to set standards. I see how it started...

This is not something HaLL took initiative to. I suggest you don't speak of things you don't know about.

[MorbidAngel]

plz tell me more cos i want to know

[stoffi]

plz tell me more cos i want to know

HaLL is the best and pwnest, not to mention 1337. There, that's all I know. :)

[stoffi]

The logic and ethics in here are dismal.

You can't ambiguously proclaim that a timeframe of hostility exists, and thus expires, after the last attack was made by the aggressor Kingdom. You don't know that the aggressor of the initial wave isn't being opped to hell and back, so you can't use what's in the paper (or what isn't) to justify double-hostiles. If on the '8th hour' you get a spread of riots and other ops or whatever, and then a third Kingdom concludes that the hostile is 'over' and waves, clearly they're benefiting from the initial hostile situation in process between the first two Kingdoms. Additionally, what if the aggressor Kingdom intends to conduct a second wave (greed/feud/whatever)? Who are you to intervene on their conflict just because 8 hours have passed?

If the recipient of a wave offers a CF, it's still only an offer that has yet to be accepted, thus the hostility continues to be active until such a time that the CF is closed.

If the recipient of a wave offers a CF, which is subsequently accepted, and either Kingdom is in turn waved by a third, this is valid as their hostile is closed. More specifically here, if the aggressor Kingdom makes the mistake of being prepared to close the hostile and finalise relations despite having armies out, it's their own error of being in a position with no relations and them being left defenseless. If they are prepared to close relations with everything out, then they have to live with those consequences; there's little difference between a full wave of randoms and having no relations which puts them in exactly the same position.

Regarding 'Scenario 2', it is not acceptable for any Kingdom to wave either of the two initial Kingdoms involved. Kingdom 'D' has seen that C waved A, thus the intent is obvious and both are in a 1v1 hostile situation.

An active hostile between two Kingdoms, even if one is not making visible attacks, is always active until such a time that the CF is closed or if 48hrs have passed; the reason for the latter is that you can see from a full CE that no attacks have transpired between both Kingdoms. There could be one situation where the recipient of a wave ops the aggressor continually despite making no hits, but the aggressor would continue hitting thus there isn't going to be a situation where both are idle, hence the hostile is continually active.

If you're held to ransom by someone keeping a button on you, then it's your responsibility to plan for that eventuality.

My kd is hostile with lots of kds. I hereby claim to be in active hostile....

Where's your logic now?

[DHaran]

/me grabs popcorn

[Spheric]

My logic is in the same post.

If your Kingdom is genuinely hostile with lots of Kingdoms, then you're in active hostiles. This isn't any different from initial OOP conditions. Your preparedness to hit into multiple Kingdoms concurrently is your own risk; if both retaliate, yes you're in a double-hostile, but it's one of your own doing thus you must live with the consequences. You picked a 1v2 (or more) fight, and those two (or more) Kingdoms weren't the ones that brought this to you.

You'll have to elaborate more because you didn't really expand on the discussion.

[gergnub]

/me steals some popcorn from DHaran.