War Strat Human Sage

[ordos]

Can you all rate my strat, and give some recommendations? I think I have everything, except more science (Which is really a given).

Just put 200% Wage rate on, so military numbers should go up, still got some troops in training, and just finished my build strat for war.

My main question is should I drop my 1 Off spec per acre for more elites? I have them in purely to increase my ambush defence a bit.

Would I need more rax for 2 attacks a day?

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The Province of XXXX XXX XXXXX (##:##)
[http://www.utopiatemple.com Angel v2.00 Beta 2]

Server: World of Legends (Age 45)
Utopian Date: June 13th, YR5 (55% in the day)
RL Date: December 17th, 2009 (16:33 GMT)

Ruler Name: The Wise Lord XXXX
Personality & Race: The Sage, Human
Land: 1,362 Acres
Money: 165,701gc (34,235gc daily income)
Food: 33,219 bushels
Runes: 31,031 runes
Population: 39,868 citizens (29.27 per Acre)
Peasants: 11,871 (93% Building Efficiency)
Trade Balance: 215,440gc (0% tax rate)

ME+Stance (no spells): 119.76% off. / 111.97% def.
Soldiers: 0 (63.9% estimated draft rate)
Swordsmen: 1,400 (8,383 offense)
Archers: 9,037 (60,715 defense)
Knights: 10,250 (73,653 offense / 34,432 defense)
War-Horses: 0
Prisoners: 361 (1,297 offense)

Total Modified Offense: 83,333 (61.18 per Acre)
Practical (100% elites): 83,333 (61.18 per Acre)
Total Modified Defense: 95,147 (69.86 per Acre)
Practical (0% elites): 60,715 (44.58 per Acre)

Thieves: 4,800 (3.52 per Acre / 100% Stealth)
Wizards: 2,510 (1.84 per Acre / 85% Mana)

Crystal-Ball on your province will show:
Max. Possible Thieves/Wizards: 10,750 (7.89 / Acre)
Estimated Thieves Number: 4,300 (3.16 per Acre)
Estimated Wizards Number: 1,613 (1.18 per Acre)

** Networth Table: **
Total Networth: 238,134gc (174.84 per Acre)
Land (90% built): 69,462gc (29%) - [15+40gc]
Archers: 54,222gc (23%) - [6gc]
Knights: 53,812gc (23%) - [5.25gc]
Thieves: 19,200gc (8%) - [4gc]
Science (estimated): 13,761gc (6%) - [1/92gc]
Peasants: 11,871gc (5%) - [1gc]
Wizards: 10,040gc (4%) - [4gc]
Swordsmen: 5,600gc (2%) - [4gc]
Money: 166gc (0%) - [1/1000gc]

Buildings: 1,100gc to build, 690gc to raze

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Military Intelligence on XXXX XXX XXXXX (##:##)
[http://www.utopiatemple.com Angel v2.00 Beta 2]

Server: World of Legends (Age 45)
Ruler Name: The Wise Lord XXXX
Personality & Race: The Sage, Human

** Summary **
Non-Peasants: 70.6%
Efficiency (SoM): 119.8% off., 112% def., 100% raw
Net Offense at Home (from Utopia): 82,036
Net Defense at Home (from Utopia): 95,147
Modified Attack points (calculated): 82,063
Modified Defense points (calculated): 95,169

** Standing Army (At Home) **
Swordsmen: 1,400 (8,386 offense)
Archers: 9,037 (60,729 defense)
Knights: 10,250 (73,677 offense / 34,440 defense)
Total Attack points: 82,063
Total Defense points: 95,169

** Troops in Training **
Archers: 363 (2,439 defense)
Next 12 hours: 21 22 21 21 22 21 13 13 13 13 13 13...
Knights: 355 (2,552 offense / 1,193 defense)
Next 12 hours: 22 21 22 21 22 21 13 12 13 12 13 12...

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Science Intelligence on XXXX XXX XXXXX (##:##)
[http://www.utopiatemple.com Angel v2.00 Beta 2]

Server: World of Legends (Age 45)
Land: 1,362 Acres
Books to Allocate: 0 books

** Effects Summary (Known Science Only) **
24.5% Income (206,152 points)
17.5% Building Effectiveness (205,864 points)
13.5% Population Limits (288,373 points)
75.4% Food Production (59,726 points)
14.4% Gains in Combat (71,351 points)
92.1% Thievery Effectiveness (158,335 points)
73% Magic Effectiveness & Rune Production (99,478 points)

** Science Points in Progress **
Alchemy: 10,000 points in progress
Tools: 10,000 points in progress
Housing: 4,410 points in progress
Military: 4,496 points in progress

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Survey / Buildings Report Information
[http://www.utopiatemple.com Angel v2.00 Beta 2]

Server: World of Legends (Age 45)
Building Efficiency: 93.4%
Kingdom Stance: Normal

1. Homes: 136 (10%)
2. Farms: 90 (6.6%)
3. Training Grounds: 203 (14.9%) + 1 in progress (+0.1%)
4. Military Barracks: 0 (0%) + 68 in progress (+5%)
5. Forts: 68 (5%)
6. Hospitals: 202 (14.8%) + 2 in progress (+0.1%)
7. Guilds: 169 (12.4%)
8. Towers: 55 (4%)
9. Thieves' Dens: 202 (14.8%) + 2 in progress (+0.1%)
10. Libraries: 68 (5%) + 68 in progress (+5%)
11. Dungeons: 28 (2.1%)

Total Land: 1,362 Acres (89.6% built)
In Progress: 141 Acres (10.4%)

** Effects Summary (Available Buildings Only) **
1. +1,088 maximum population, +33.58% birth rate
2. Produce 5,884 bushels (7,355 with FL)
3. +17.77% offense bonus
4. -0% attack time
5. +6.65% defense bonus
6. 23.6% cure plague, -35.39% military losses
7. Training about 3.16 wizards per hour
8. Produce 616 runes per hour
9. -47.19% losses, +35.39% effectiveness
10. +9.49% science effects (not affected by BE)
11. 560 prisoners (1,680 offense, 280gc, 280 jobs)

** Effects Summary (Including Future Buildings) **
3. +17.84% offense bonus
4. -6.65% attack time
6. 23.79% cure plague, -35.68% military losses
9. -47.58% losses, +35.68% effectiveness
10. +17.98% science effects (not affected by BE)

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Thanks for all the input in advance.

[Bishop]

i would drop forts for rax

[_greenie]

better than i was expecting, and pretty reasonable =)
agree with bishop's comments

run 200% pay rate and you'll be sweet!

[ordos]

Cheers guys, I'll do that now. Pay rate already on 200%, just waiting for it to set in now.

Anything else I need to worry about? Are my science ratios OK?

[_greenie]

Cheers guys, I'll do that now. Pay rate already on 200%, just waiting for it to set in now.

Anything else I need to worry about? Are my science ratios OK?

i would look at getting ~100-120% food, then start dumping it into pop =)
if you can get close to 20% pop, you will have the basis for a very strong prov

[Bishop]

what _greenie said, you can drop farms for libs as your sci grows

[Blip]

That looks really nice. But definitely change the forts out for barracks. Also this is essentially what I am looking to do with my prov, I am currently half your size and started less then a week ago but I already have 200bpa.
How is it that you decided to grow?
Did you invest into specific science at certain points or keep an even increase across the board? I know most people go for Income, BE, and Pop and then start some on the other sciences.
My current kingdom is a ghetto so I am trying to stay low key by keeping low acres and just devoting 70% of my income to books but it will still take a lot of time to grow like that. So as a general question should I grow now or just stay low key.

[Ethan]

You show about 800 bpa, so your 10% libs is a little high of the static ideal, but not much. The sci ratio looks nice - soon you need to start dumping it all into pop sci though. (and gains if you like) Reason is, beyond a certain point, sci is more NW effective in pop than anywhere else, and the "cap" is dramatically higher. So more pop sci is always good, but more of the others less so. Even with 20% libs, that point can be under 200 bpa for food sci where the sci NW actually hurts instead of helps. While for pop, as long as you have less than 10,000 bpa, you can use more.

I'd swipe the 5% more rax from guilds, hospitals, and dungeons. If stables aren't worth it, are dungeons really just better enough? In a pinch, I'd take from TG over the forts - I find a 2:1 ratio between those two works well.

Finial note, your DR is kinda high, especially with no income buildings (except libs). I'd suggest you watch out for cases where you need more econ. As a prep for a planned war, "over-pumping" like this is good though, as you can get a fast start and hold the first hit or two, then kidnap to jumpstart econ. But don't think you need 65% DR to be effective - 55% can, and will, work nearly as well, with a much better econ to boot.

All in all, looks a lot like me, except about twice the size. And only a little more sci. (Forgot how much bad kingdoms get kicked around - but 1,200+ bpa is finally starting to scare them off.) Pretty easy to get better sci when you aren't growing much - yours looks about as good as could be expected for your size.

[Bishop]

what? why would you get forts from tgs? forts are useless.

[_greenie]

what? why would you get forts from tgs? forts are useless.

the god awful "optimisation" word ;)

[Bishop]

i have yet to war a kd who let me run my province optimally. they tend to want to hit me, and that tends to ruin provs that are designed in a vacuum :p

[Ethan]

Presumably top kingdoms work differently, but where I'm used to playing, I expect to get 24 hours before the enemy kingdom starts reacting to me. Unless I'm intentionally keeping a higher off ratio than the rest of the kingdom, or they pick me as a chain target, they look elsewhere for the first day, and only notice me after my second or third hit. So, in one sense, I do operate in a vacuum initially.

The point that you are making is a valid point, however. No strat can remain static in the face of the enemy and do well. You must respond, which requires skill and intuition (and good intel). I dispute that this prevents one from optimizing towards a *local* maximum however.

In this particular case, if one can raise OPA and/or OPNW (whichever you believe is a better measure) by employing forts and tgs combined, you should do so. Similarly with tgs vs. stables, though stables are much more complicated to evaluate once BE, timelag and theives come into play (and thus there should be significantly wider divergence between theoretical optimal and actual optimal). In the case of TGs vs. forts, there is no timelag factor (both are instant), there is no BE factor (both are impacted the same), while losses and nw both are very small effects that can safely discounted (especially as they pull in opposite directions). With any good A/T, burn forts isn't a problem... and having fewer of a building is probably safer against the rogues as it is, so that issue is a wash (imo - not all agree of course).

So the remaining dynamic consideration is fixed def vs. variable def. Due to turtleing, MS, NM, (and NS for some), plus an unknown number of incoming hits, I find the idea of a fixed defense to be rather pointless. My def is all over the map once war is engaged, thus having an FB run lower my def by a % or two, over the course of a few hours, is not a concern at all for me.

Thus, at least in my case (and presumably others that agree with the above points), the "theoretical" optimum (the static opt.) is a very good approximation for the "actual" optimum, the value that performs the best. Thus, in this case in particular, we can put a very high trusts on our static optimization calcs, keeping in mind only that once build strats start shifting, we need to reevaluate our goals to see what should be built next.

Please also note, I wasn't really suggesting (many) more forts on this prov, only that the needed extra rax should come *in part* from TGs instead of zeroing the forts. I recognize my 2:1 ratio is a little too low for many people's comfort - it is just where I've normally found a nice balance for myself. Given the similarities of our provs (see the libs!) my experience is probably a particularly good guild in this case.


So, in summation - while dynamic considerations are relevant to any strat discussion, in this case they can be safely ignored and the (much more precise) static analysis can be safely used.

[Bishop]

ethan, when you get chained you lose a lot of defense. your forts are now worthless. your TGs are still useful as you have offense. no-one ever wins a war by having good defense on a chain, you win it by making sure as hell you can quad who you need to.

[Drug]

This game is too dynamic and situational for any golden strats/builds. That's one of reasons why we all love this game. Or loved in my case ;)

Anyway ppl underestimate forts for some gay reason.

2 ages ago while playing in Rage I ran 22,5% forts as 3900 acre elf vs 3500 acre orcs in Playboys. And guess what? Nobody hit me, coz they could not break me with army away even ;)

Saying forts r useless is like admitting u r a noob, Bishop ;)

[Bishop]

but i am a noob. Though let me rephrase. Forts are useless, unless you are one of the biggest provs in your kingdom in war and wish to be unbreakable. Otherwise they are fail.