Question on BE with %-based buildings

[FireBones]

Something in the guide did not match what I observed in game and I wanted to ask about it. I'm sure some people who played dwarves last era can clarify.

It makes a huge difference now with artisan getting +20 BE.

The guide says this:

Percentage Based Buildings = Base Effect * BE * % of building * (1 - % of building)

This breaks down to essentially saying

Having a 120% BE increases _THE BONUS ITSELF_ you get from a building by 20%.

So if 10% forts normally give you 13.5% defense, they would now give you 13.5*1.2 = 16.2% defense.

However, I believe in game I observed the following instead:

Percentage Based Buildings = Base Effect * BE * % of building * (1 - BE*% of building)

This breaks down to essentially saying:

Having a 120% BE increases the _effective % of buildings you have_ for a given building by a factor of 1.2.

So, if you 10% forts and 120% BE, it is the same as having 12% forts (and 100% BE), giving you a defensive boost of 15.84%

Of course, there is not a huge difference here...but the difference could be quite important for dwarf artisans, especially on buildings that reduce rather than increase [barracks, armouries, etc.]

Could someone try to answer this definitely, preferably someone who has played dwarf recently and is certain of the answer.

[Bishop]

formula 1 is correct

[METALLICA]

dwarf BE + Artisan BE is like putting a jet engine on a lawnmower

economic power isnt everything. many other combos will have a more efficient war military than the dw/art

dw/shep or dw/warrior are both picks that could beat a dw/art

this age's artisan is more effective with an orc or human than anything else

[Priel]

Agreed, 1 is correct. Have not played dwarf but have worked the formula based on BE and it turns out to be 1. Agreed though that the previous(?) guide was a bit misleading, as it seems to implies 2, it says something like having 120% BE means that each of your building behaves like 1.2, seems to implies 10% function like 12% now, and we know diminishing returns sets in.

This means the effects of high/low BE are greater than it seems.

Metallica, would be better if you just answered his question without inputting what you think about the race/choice he's asking about.

[METALLICA]

youre probably right, i just didnt want to spew out the normal mathematical wet dream that all of the other dw/arts are getting excited about

make sure this is what you want, because everyone will either be dw/art, or a build to counter it

[Priel]

I think it won't be as good as they imagine, but i don't think it'll be as bad as you think it is. We'll just have to see when the age starts.

[FireBones]

The thing about dwarf Artisan is that there are tons of builds someone can try, and most of them are nowhere near as good as they could be.

[adjin]

You should think on that once more, further...

[watchman]

Second that motion. Got me scratching my head wondering what exatctly was he trying to say.

[pmyraje]

You'd get your lawn mowed faster with a jet engine on your mower, provided it didn't blow up before you finish.

I like buildings so BE bonuses are very nice for me. Military is boring!

[FireBones]

Second that motion. Got me scratching my head wondering what exatctly was he trying to say.

I'm just saying that it is easy to do Dwarf Artisan wrong. Since there are more attractive options with regard to build, there are more dead-ends for build strats.

For example, you can make a Dwarf Artisan more or less impregnable with 15% GS, 15% WT, and 15% guilds...the BE bonus would make all of those more powerful than normal and give the dwarf a lot of protection...or you can use those acres for any number of other things. Lots of options, and most of them are not nearly as good as the best ones.

Let me put it another way: since you only need 15% of a building [instead of, say 22-25%] to get a good-sized boost, there are more buildings you can choose to base your strat around...thus more combinations to choose from and more opportunity to choose badly.

[Noek]

To add to that,

more chance to run a rainbow strat ;)

[Priel]

Fortunately for them, their rainbow strat is better than others running rainbow strat. Still weak, but better than others.