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Thread: State of the Game Address. Please get involved!

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    Enthusiast Coruscale's Avatar
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    Exclamation State of the Game Address. Please get involved!

    I apologize in advance for the length of this post.

    A general summary of the purpose of this post is my concerns about where the game is heading. Those who know me know I'm a fairly positive person all around, and have been consistently supporting to give Jolt/OMAC a break and/or keep discussions regarding them mature. I'm probably one of the last, if not the last, that has said I have faith in their capabilities -- regardless of my honesty in that they're doing something wrong.

    For those that don't know me, it's fair for me to say that anyone I've come across it's been on good terms and I've for the most part never done any harm to anyone in the game in my stay. Well, except for Mikeland - during diplomacy I sent a picture of a grandma tranny as my ending statement. <3 Ava and Chrissi :P. I am a carebear when it comes to people's real feelings. So I feel, given that said - even those that don't know me, you can trust that what I have to say is fairly just and true in intentions. I hope you take the time to involve yourself and additionally talk to others as well.

    The issue is this at this point - I lack the ability to close my eyes anymore, or not so much close my eyes - but keep my chin up and smile in regards to it. This again, those that know me - also know that as well while I'm fairly positive and nice, I can also be one of the loudest straight-forward c***-suckers in the room once I disagree with something, normally vehemently.

    Notes to those who read and respond:

    1. Mind over matter.

    Keep a serious mind, I don't mean you have to respond seriously or entirely intellectual - but understand the purpose of this post is well intentioned.

    2. CAUTION! Do not feed the animals.

    Try to abide to the forum rules and keep flaming/swear to a minimum. If anyone sees anyone flaming, try to defuse the situation to the best you can and PLEASE do not feed trolls.

    3. Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless like water...

    I encourage every person to get involved - top/low KD players, retired players, moderators, community managers, and so forth. I encourage you to all speak freely without an underlying motive.

    4. Can't we all just get along?

    Moderators I ask you do not delete any threads in this post, even if some break numerous rules.
    Try to use editing instead, and if it's swearing - use *** to block out the prefix letters rather than change the words. Changing the words would normally adjust the content flow of what someone is saying, anyone that can understand what F*** means is old enough to use the word, those who can't - are protected from it, not that really need any protecting in any case. And if you have to edit a persons post completely out, clearly denote why and if possible summarize the purpose of the person's post.

    Use at your own digression but consider the general fired up attitude of the community before you make any rash decisions. For the most part I've seen good work from the moderators, namely Patience has been doing amazing - flawless in my opinion. Bishop has been doing great too, but has stepped on a few toes - but his personification in his moderation is respectful. Lydias as a community manager has been amazing. She should get a fat raise in my honest opinion.

    Holey moley Jabroni, get to the point!

    As you can tell, this will probably be a bit on the long side given the precursor is already at this size. And again, I realize that it may seem lame to some that I take the time to right this, especially when I'm on temporary retirement as is - but this is by far the most intriguing game I've ever played, and I've considered myself a fairly accomplished gamer. While the game itself at this point is relatively unimpressive anymore, the community itself I still have sincere feelings for. But as you can see from mergers and disbandment of long standing KDs followed by the detainment rate of new players, both new and old are unable to see reason to continue.

    Without further adue:

    Quote Originally Posted by Luth View Post
    was 10 minutes 2 hours ago...

    dialup was NEVER this bad... EVER
    This was posted in the Bugs Report section, in Luth's wonderful "Outstanding bugs - PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING" post. What was said, while I say this with dismay, couldn't be more truthful. Having played years on dial-up, I can honestly attest the game's response time is slower than a 56k modem and you'd be hard pressed to prove it was much better than 28.8k. And these were during times where the server population had been as low as they are now to closer to ten fold it's current retainer.

    Initially, I must ask this:

    Can we get a solid official response about the current plan of things, what's being done, who's doing it and so forth. And I'd appreciate not just a dinky response, but a solid response that explains a bit in detail. This additionally, should be a joint response from those who have a better understanding of the actual current milestones and future plans - so developers should say what they're doing and what problems they've run into, as well as community managers should make a clear statement of what they're doing now and what is planned for the game.

    Additionally, even though I requested a jointed response - I think all players would appreciate a human response (Brian & Sean have been pretty good about that when they were making dev. posts) rather than a robotic one which would only leave us to question your actual intentions and ultimately make your response futile.

    Now onto my actual grievances:

    I normally don't talk ill of others in the IT field, especially in regards to programming/development -- but you guys have really had a ton of time on your hands to get the game done. All these problems should be addressed already.

    In both my opinion and professional view - at this point, given the amount of time that's been laid available to you, performance issues should be at equilibrium. Additionally, if anything it should be faster, however if not - it should be no less than equal in speed and stability. All player management facets should be working, such as training times and Attacks. Your ad system should be working properly. User account functions should be working as promised.

    So where should you be?

    Personally, I feel that at this point - you should be at a milestone where you're looking to improve performance further, streamlining the game design, and adding game functionality. This could be in-line with sponsorship as well, but could be prior to public announcement.

    For those who are technically aware in regards to web dev. trends, comparatively - this game is, in it's current state -- however long standing, is worse than Magento's E-Commerce load. The required architecture between the two are on two different plains all together additionally, Utopia should be considerably less complex in comparison - yet it still suffers these type of performance issues on a well respected cloud, compared to Magento which could retain better service with equal hits on a lax shared environment? (This is me talking out of my ass - but I'd still bet on it)

    Child-like Critcism, oh my!

    The management of this game appears to me, and I'm sure many others (Given the emotional consensus I see from others), to be quiet frankly - ass backwards. Now I'm not saying I could do a better job in a professional position, because I couldn't - but they're sound issues in regards to this game that have repeatedly shown either complete disregard for the community or responses that would serve best in iambic panto-meter in Shakespearean tragedies.


    "I have balls of steel."

    I have not seen failure like this ever in gaming history outside of 3D Realm's handling of Duke Nukem': Forever, which has been "in-development" for 13 years. However, with that being said, they are additionally two different campaign spheres. One being straight-shooting vaporware and the other being destroying an already existing game that wasn't really all that broken in the first place. Yes, we cried out to fix CGI errors - but NO ONE should have been altering the internal game code outside of simple Age shifts, until you had a solid and stable product to release in place of it. Additionally, had you been altering code - there should have been plenty of backups and file-version control for a project like this.

    The above said is simply an example of concern, but the past is the past and you need to recognize faults to improve yourself as a whole, but it seems that even up to current date this is failing as well.

    Crouching tiger, hidden penis!

    In recent issues, our forum has been removed from the list. Below is cited reasoning for this action, and I'll note before hand - DO NOT hold Bishop responsible to this, this is an official response:

    Quote Originally Posted by Bishop View Post
    the official line is as follows

    The Uto forums are undergoing rework to remove the "cartoony" images as per user request
    The forum will not then be consistent with Jolt Forum styling and so will not be listed.
    Should we find an alternative style that's acceptable to all parties, we can consider adding it back in the future.
    This is cited within this thread, Q: Why are we removed from Browser Game Communities?

    While I can take and respect actually responding to our questions on the subject, I find it odd that this would be a reasonably deemed option. I respect that they are already working on relieving this issue by offering a new style, but again - why do this?

    I hear voices...

    This is where paranoia can be driving point in my case, but I'm going to avoid pushing that as a point. While I agree the questionable motives, such as the possibility of trying to push the community out and/or destroying the game in a cunning version of Mao Zedong's Art of War (Personally I compare it to KGB-style antics). It appears that chess pieces are being placed appropriately to push us into what are seemingly foreseen controlled responses. Additionally, I'm seeing hints of power plays at the same time.

    But I'll avoid all that as I do not want to taint my post (Haha, he said taint!) -- my concern is how they view the community by doing this? What is completely demoralizing is that they're completely comfortable saying "We're completely comfortable hiding your community as your views do not reflect ours."

    /facepalm

    Really? You're actually okay disabling our ability to attract more players, which will digress our game to an even lower state at it's most fundamental level. FURTHER MORE this is just because we don't agree with the design chosen? You could have simply stated you will begin working on a new design to quell the masses but in the mean time try and use the current one, and if it's that much of an issue - manually change to a style that is more fitting to your personal taste.

    Yes, I understand the cry-out of the community was childlike in nature. However, it's hard to deny that the art work at the top was a slap in the face to the Utopian populace, as it's a fairly majority view that Utopia Kingdoms relies on it's art work (Yes, I had to refrain myself quoting gobsmacking) to attract and the game itself is a slap to all of us that you claim it's what Utopian's have wanted. Yeah, I'm fairly certain we all want advancements to the game - but not at the expense of losing the core FORCED game focus: community. Did you think having a character of the game we loathe at the top was going to rub us the right way? Basically, in the most obscene metaphorical value - you tried to shove a pineapple up a bears ass, whilst saying "lemons" for reasons unknown. You can't expect to not receive an overtly hostile response to that.

    While I feel that our reaction was a bit tasteless - you should suck it up and take responsibility rather than slink to a lower level. We're not loud because we're ungrateful bastards, we're loud because they're actual problems to address. If you review the community in the past, you'll see that their have always been problems - but additionally, there was a lot more self-restraint.

    The goooooooood Ol' days

    We were very loud with Mehul as well at times. The difference is this, Mehul normally stepped up right to the plate and held responsibility for things. Hell, a lot of the time his response time was nearly flawless with fixes. Why is it can one man (Blake did help though in multiple facets) can accomplish all this, but a well grounded company with a much larger capable scope can't even amount to a fraction of his work?

    I will NOT say you're incompetent, because I do not believe this. While I want to come up there and go MMA on your asses for what, yes, feels like incompetence - I understand and respect your accompany and it's employees are accomplished. However, I feel you need to take a major turn and adhere to a bit of insight from your community to actually get things done.

    With that being said, I suggest the following:

    1. Lets put on some big boy pants.

    Address the community on questions concerning what is there biggest problem with the game. Catwalk made a post/poll fairly in-line to what I'm stating here, but I feel that Jolt should come forth and initiate - it should not be our responsibility to involve ourselves so much into this, as there is little to no gain.

    The post noted is here: Which of the following bother you the most? Pick 3

    I feel so pretty, Oh, so pretty, I feel pretty and witty and bright!

    However! Please, recognize the beauty in that - as we still do as a reflection of how much we care and love our friends within the community, yet you can't obtain that same eccentricity for something, I feel, is a municipal gold mine. This extends to Earth as well, not just Utopia - but yes, more so Utopia given it's raw community drive and passion. You should use that care as a driving point in your care for the game, even if the community has been yelling at you. There is ALWAYS a mirror reflection of good or bad in anything. So take the time to admire the white light in what may appear so grim.

    2. Whatcha need baby?

    Ask what the community wants for this game. What needs to be tweaked? What needs to be re-affirmed (E.g. Rules and regulations)? What do you want to see new in the game and how?

    Take the time to learn about what we want.

    3. Technical Knockouts

    Ask the professional community what is realistic in our wants and needs. Ask how we could accomplish things - in how to actually achieve the goal, what costs are involved, how long it may take and a general synopsis of concerns and why they feel one way may be better than the other. This doesn't just reflect the development of the game, this pertains to management as well.

    Example, cheating

    An example concern in management is Anti-cheating methodologies. Take in those that have actually cheated on a large scale and can be reaffirmed by a good portion of the community. Take into account those who do not cheat, but have a realistic view and understanding of methodologies.

    Notably so, one person shouldn't be managing cheating alone. You should have a group of people reviewing cases and the information provided. Take into account logs from 3rd party programs, but don't take them as facts - as people are really that lame to forge logs for their own purpose. Take the time to piece issues together and investigate.

    iRobot

    Algorithms that have an evolving AI mechanism should not automatically act, actions should always be manual labor. However, I definitely suggest checks to warn and investigate.

    Stay true to your word

    Further more - once you make a choice, DO NOT (In my opinion) withdraw from it. Stand fast unless you are presented with absolutely irrefutable proof. If you get bull**** templates from people "Oh, I moved to so-and-so" - ****ing ignore it. Kingdoms do have templates of circumstantial issues to send to you to con you into re-instating. Not to mention, they also have brain storm groups to come up with unique ones if it's been over used or the situation is unique. It's sickening at the amount of time people put into cheating.

    The counter arguments?

    The concern by the community that do cheat, I've normally heard is as so:

    So many cheat that it's unrealistic to assume you could compete. Additionally, claimed is that they try so hard to have their players reinstated because they enjoy their presence as much, which again - shows how we'll do anything to retain our community.

    However this being logical reasoning, and I can definitely understand it from an emotional aspect - you're turning over a never-ending circle. You'd never have to face these issues if people didn't cheat. Some may claim "There will always be someone cheating", which statistically - is of contextual value, it doesn't change the fact that you're making the matter worse by succumbing to it. The more and more people cheat, the more people will be drawn to cheating. But likewise, the less and less people cheat, the more people will resolve from cheating.

    I can only hope

    So on a personal note, and I know most won't listen - I'd really like you to take in what's been said and take a stand in stopping yourself. What's disgusting is hearing claims from kingdoms that do cheat boasting about victories over kingdoms that don't cheat. So, given that expression of morality - I highly doubt anyone would really take in what I've said. But I can wish?

    Anyway, I apologize for the tangent on the subject.

    4. If you show me yours, I'll show you mine.

    Take into account everything that's been suggested and present a game plan to the community. If you see a reasonably happy consensus (A poll would help counting this, but I'd encourage reading written accounts too.), then you're on the right track. If not - ask on how to achieve a better plan.

    If people are being unreasonably nit-picky about it, then confirm towards a game plan that you deem is fit. But ensure that the plan's key focus is community and communication.

    Communication

    Yet again - with that being mentioned, updates should be made by both community managers and the developers on what's new with the game - regardless if there is not much to say. Additionally, I really suggest (And this is purely my personal opinion) taking the time to step away a little from professionalism and taking the time to personify yourself with us. We're about community, so I can't see us not caring about your real life - and I can actually see us being a lot less tense in regards to you all. I'm not saying dump a bunch of drama on us, but write with emotion as opposed to stone.

    Development

    I suggest you do not release bug fixes day-by-day unless they're critical bugs, but release them in packages each week aligned with your blog post. This, strategically, should ALWAYS give you something to talk about each week. You can use this as a catalytic reminder of posting each week.

    5. Godspeed, Soldier!

    Adhere to the game plan!

    ---------------------------------------------------

    That's pretty much it. The only suggestion I have about managing this, is having your concerns publicly addressed to us on the front page and/or in a notice somewhere on the game.

    E.g.

    "We want you! Join up in the discussions on how to improve our game <hlink>here</hlink>! We'd like to hear from everyone, new and old players alike!

    The link should direct to a post on the forums, that either addresses all the issues there or summarizes your goals and links to posts of each of the discussions in phases.

    ---------------------------------------------------

    I'd like to hear from you all on how you feel about this and I'd encourage to you to keep this thread pushing if you really feel something needs to be done about this game. I'm not saying my ideas in the latter section are the best way to go, but I personally feel it's reasonable to request given the consistent failures and backwards psychology by Jolt/OMAC.

    Ultimately, the facts presented are a major concern to me and I'd like to hear from everyone else in a constructive manner how they feel and what we should be doing or they should be doing to relieve our stresses.

    Thank you all for reading my post!

    With love to all of you,



    Jesse E. Finn
    Last edited by Coruscale; 13-03-2010 at 21:01.
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  2. #2
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    I tried to read all that, but it was just way way way too much. I'm known for typing too much often, but even I don't go that far. I would be surprised if more than a handful of people read all of that if you don't simply boil it down to some far more concise points.

    I can't be doing with those who moan endlessly in the forum, but at least their moans are generally pithy and to the point. I lost the thread of what your point was before I was half way through. Sure, feel free to put a 10 paragraph disclaimer on why people should listen to you, but separate it out from the actual points you are making for those who are just contented to read it without the preamble.

    I personally have never been to the higher levels of the Jolt forum (apart from to take a look when the fuss kicked off about Utopia not being there). It seems totally irrelevant to me. If they advertise properly, preferably with some key bugs fixed, then players will come...they may not stay, but they'll arrive and evaluate the game. It doesn't need people to trickle through from Jolt's main forum. I've never been a fan of game developers listening too much to the community anyway - the people running the game should decide what it is and what it does in a way that will allow them to stay enthusiastic about it. The players then decide whether they want to play the game or not. Developers running the game the way the most vocal elements of the community want it will likely lose interest and not do as good a job, if anyone is actually working anywhere near full time on the game anyway (almost certainly not).

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    This is the most well thought out critical assessment I think i've ever read in an online gaming community.

    I would call myself an average player, and enjoy playing this game on a casual level, but it saddens me to see it deteriorate in the way it has. I played the game way back in the day when the population was enormous.

    Anyways, I don't have anything to add, just wish to support this post.

  4. #4
    Enthusiast Coruscale's Avatar
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    Mmm. Yeah I definitely agree the post is certainly long, but I felt I still feel it necessary to explain as much as I did.

    And I agree, the hit from Jolt removing us from their list isn't a major hit to us in regards to regulating our player population - but it's simply a clear representation of how they seemingly do everything in the most backwards motion. It's more or less the straw that broke the camels back to me.
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    >> Finn
    >> Formerly in Copy Cats, Lothlorien, and Pyromaniacs


    Is Wizzy secretly a gay fish?

    * &Wizard likes fishsticks
    <&Wizard> I love putting fishsticks in my mouth

  5. #5
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    I second Semadin... very well done. And thanks for the kind words, too. :)

    pmyraje... if you're having trouble with the sheer volume of words, why would you bother to disrupt the thread with a post that basically boils down to 'TLDR'? A lot of people will be interested enough to read the whole thing (myself, for instance). He took a lot of trouble to put his (and many others') thoughts down - it would be nice if people could respect the effort.

    Coruscale, I truly hope this results in better communication. I see a bit more of Jolt's workings than most people, and I see this as their major downfall - a lot of hard feelings could be alleviated if they would just listen and respond occasionally. Or for the love of Pete, get someone in place whose soul purpose is to liaise between the communities and the devs so both sides at least know what the hell is happening.

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    It's not really that surprising though. They clearly regard this game as something that is not worth putting much money or time into and that they will likely just close down soon so why include a forum which has such a volatile and overbearing community on the main forum page? I would expect that the more the community complains the sooner the game will close as just not being worth the hassle.


    Edit: As for the volume of words, I am just making an observation. I would have happily read through it all if it were organised into separate structured posts. I just suspect he will lose a lot of people who might otherwise have read it. No problem with him targeting it at a minority though if that is what the aim was. I'm not disagreeing with the fact that there are some valid points made. I guess time will tell how many people do read the whole lot. Evidence of the developers own response to the forums, even on short pithy posts, suggests that they themselves are not all that likely to read it all. I hope I am proved wrong.
    Last edited by pmyraje; 13-03-2010 at 20:12.

  7. #7
    Needs to get out more VT2's Avatar
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    Look at that! Another OMAC-supporter joins the dark side.
    Catwalk's crusade for legalized cheating was a stunning success, with ghettos and low-tiered teams everywhere losing their wells of knowledge to better kingdoms in the process.

    Step one: replace everything that works.
    Step two: blame the predictable epic fail on outside forces.
    Step three: keep the community informed that no progress has been made since the last update.
    Step four: thank you for your patience.

  8. #8
    Regular Inka's Avatar
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    I have been playing this game for over 10 yrs.. On and off yes.. but more on then off. i love the game.. but more importantly I love the ppl here. Things have gone down loads but there is still enough spunk and affection to run this game and make it worthy of the time. OMAC.. plz dont kill the game. its been an essential part of my life for years and i want my kids to play this too! Just be sincere and do ur stuff!

  9. #9
    Enthusiast Coruscale's Avatar
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    Hmm. Any suggestions on how to organize? Sadly it's kinda too late since people have already posted. I agree and worried that there would be a flow/care issue, I wasn't directing this at a minority. So I definitely appreciate that input.

    Edit: In all actuality, I pretty much want people to tell anyone they know that's cared about or has been involved in the game about the post and take the time to respond when they have a chance. So feel free to paste the link into your channels or internal forums and get as many people here to talk.
    Last edited by Coruscale; 13-03-2010 at 20:24.
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    >> Finn
    >> Formerly in Copy Cats, Lothlorien, and Pyromaniacs


    Is Wizzy secretly a gay fish?

    * &Wizard likes fishsticks
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  10. #10
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    I do hope I'm wrong - my post wasn't meant just as a dismissive "THis is a pointless post, no-one will or should read it" - just that I went into it with the full intention of reading the whole lot, but then started to get lost in clauses and sub-clauses part way down and lost the thread.

    You had the right idea with the top part - inserting colour headings and maybe just 1, 2 or 3 paragraphs between them. That kind of thing can make a huge difference to readability - like if I turn the page in a book and see a mass of text with no paragraph break at all it is more daunting than if the text is just broken up a little. I would suggest putting some more headings into the lower part to break up what the paragraphs are actually about a little more.

  11. #11
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    Thanks pmyraje... I didn't mean to verbally cuff you, I just didn't want people to get off track by picking on the organization instead of focusing on the content. Friends? ;)

  12. #12
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    No probs! I often dive in with a reply, then hit post, re-read it and realise it didn't quite hit the right tone I was aiming for - much more difficult than giving a verbal reponse :)

  13. #13
    Enthusiast Coruscale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmyraje View Post
    I do hope I'm wrong - my post wasn't meant just as a dismissive "THis is a pointless post, no-one will or should read it" - just that I went into it with the full intention of reading the whole lot, but then started to get lost in clauses and sub-clauses part way down and lost the thread.

    You had the right idea with the top part - inserting colour headings and maybe just 1, 2 or 3 paragraphs between them. That kind of thing can make a huge difference to readability - like if I turn the page in a book and see a mass of text with no paragraph break at all it is more daunting than if the text is just broken up a little. I would suggest putting some more headings into the lower part to break up what the paragraphs are actually about a little more.
    Thanks! Will try and add some more headings, and I may break apart some paragraphs that I think are too long.

    Edit:
    Added more headings so far. Thinking of orange headlines for the 1-5 list at the bottom.

    Edit Again:
    Alright done I think. That all look good? Can't really fix the length of it, but do the breaks offer ease?
    Last edited by Coruscale; 13-03-2010 at 21:03.
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    >> Finn
    >> Formerly in Copy Cats, Lothlorien, and Pyromaniacs


    Is Wizzy secretly a gay fish?

    * &Wizard likes fishsticks
    <&Wizard> I love putting fishsticks in my mouth

  14. #14
    Needs to get out more DHaran's Avatar
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    It's a good post, too bad Brian, Sean, and Creeper will probably never read it, or read it then ignore it.
    S E C R E T S

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    I'm not sure I understand the point of your post. You want the community to provide feedback to the ninja's and the ninja's react to the feedback? I don't think that is what the game needs.

    I think all the game needs is to actually work, nothing more and nothing less. In it's current state it simply is no fun to play, in a large part due to the insufferable slowness, and by reading the forums to a lesser part to bugs and cheating (full scripted kingdoms that are allowed to continue their foul play, scripted/hacked provinces, cheaters that get special treatment and more trades where kingdoms that loose players get nothing)

    Of course, even if those issues are addressed you still have the problem that the game, even if it were fast, still is extremely uninviting to play. The layout is butt-ugly (though that's merely an opinion) and worse, it's a nightmare to use (too many clicks/pages to go through to get things done). There is no guide and no new player is going to understand the wiki. Finally you're practically forced to use third party tools (pimp and angel) which isn't exactly new player friendly either. Still before things like usability are addressed get a working game where fair competition is the norm and not cheating and/or bug use/abuse.

    Personally I'm convinced the plug will be pulled rather sooner than later. I'd love to be wrong but nothing else explains the current state of neglect
    Last edited by Yadda9To5; 13-03-2010 at 21:36.

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