Exploit Announcment - 9/4/10 - Discussion Thread

[Bishop]

Please use this thread for discussions or comments about the recent announcement.

[Poggo]

One final word: this approach will take place going forward (this will not be retroactive).

Oh great, you just gave all the past cheaters amnesty. Nice way to reward blatant exploiters and jab it to the honest players.

[Allanon KT]

Some of these "bugs" have been around since the beta of the new code. It's kinda hard to tell some of them from the intended "new features", they've been around so long >.<

That said, about bleedin time something was done about the insta-vm bug, amongst others.

[Thundergore]

In chasing up the current crop of bugs we have discovered and announced a recent fix.

[VT2]

Dear Thundergore.
Stop sucking, and start giving people what's coming to them.

Once a cheater, always a cheater. I'm very tired of your company, your overlords, and everyone else who's ever dabbled in controlling this game since Mehul gave it up simply deciding to give all cheaters get-out-of-jail-cards for free.

This is the third time all cheaters have been forgiven, and we all know they're going to continue cheating.
Why did you resurrect the rules if you had no intention of enforcing them?

Sincerely yours, VT2.

[Bishop]

It is not practical to work off backlogged cheat reports in some cases. This is why there is now a clear announcement that bug exploitation will result in action being taken - so if before you were unsure that there was a point in reporting exploits, now you can be assured that they are being actively addressed.

As I'm sure you know Thundergore was involved heavily in removing scripts and multies. Now that he has more of a handle on this he can devote time to other issues, such a bug exploitation. Working back off a 2 week old report on, for example, ambush bug abuse is simply not practical.

Going forward we can be happy that the practice of discovering and abusing a bug will not be tolerated.

[Allanon KT]

translation: Thungergore had a backlog of over 2k emails, and that "Delete All" button got a little too inviting for him to resist. However he has now foresworn it's use in future, and looks forward to many whining and abusive emails as he settles down and gets to work deleting people for being asses

[Bishop]

There is no need to translate, what i posted above states the situation exactly. Attacking Thundergores professionalism is completely unnecessary.

Please note if that was a joke i do not really posses a sense of humour.

[Thundergore]

translation: Thungergore had a backlog of over 2k emails, and that "Delete All" button got a little too inviting for him to resist. However he has now foresworn it's use in future, and looks forward to many whining and abusive emails as he settles down and gets to work deleting people for being asses

I gaped at the very prospect of 'Thunder' preaching and then not following his own words. Should you feel, any of you, at any point that I have said one thing and done another ask me to clarify or face up to the fact I need to consider what I just did.

No I did not and have not deleted a single mail. Spiritcreeper was in charge of the mail address before I and much was archived - I was assured archived mail was dealt with. So I began at the end and have worked my way up. Much still needs done.

Having said that IF it was deemed (not just by myself as it is a huge decision) that a backlog of mails was hampering the current condition of the game and most of the issues were out of date I would consider archiving a few. Even then not deleting. Even then responding (albeit in a very abbreviated fashion). This has not happened though.

Stop sucking, and start giving people what's coming to them.

If I suck, I suck. It is irrelevant to my job, which is to police this game as best as I can. Your subtle persuasions to change a sound decision will not sway me. As always I understand where you're coming from though. You listed the history of your frustration in your post.

So, considering that, perhaps I should clarify - the statement refers to several difficult to prove (very difficult with the tools I have - even more so when the reports are out of date) exploits. I am not referring to all cheaters, in their myriad guises.

Sincerley yours,

Thunder.

[Patience]

Amen! *worships Bishop's and Thunder's spleens*

[VT2]

B&S posted a 'definitively final amnesty for cheaters'-post, too, then nothing was done. Roisin made two posts exactly like that.

It's not difficult, because you know who the biggest cheaters in the game are, as do the rest of us.
You don't need further proof - delete them, and be done with it.

Is that really so hard, and too much for the players to ask?

[Bishop]

B&S posted a 'definitively final amnesty for cheaters'-post, too, then nothing was done. Roisin made two posts exactly like that.

It's not difficult, because you know who the biggest cheaters in the game are, as do the rest of us.
You don't need further proof - delete them, and be done with it.

Is that really so hard, and too much for the players to ask?

Allow me to clarify, since it appears there is some confusion. Previous cheat reports, due to the nature of their time sensitivity, are in many cases not possible to validate. You may believe that deleting people because "everyone knows they cheat" or "they cheated before, they will cheat again" is a valid reason but it is not a policy that we will be employing.

Thundergore will be acting on cheat reports that can be strictly validated. Acting any other way would not be in the interest of the game.

[VT2]

So you consider it fair that my reward for sticking with the game I love is seeing cheaters prosper - again?

You have the tools necessary to delete them.
You know who they are, and I know you know who they are. I know Spiritcreeper knew who they are.

Yet nothing is being done, and they've all been granted 'amnesty' again.
I put forth my question once more: why have rules when you're not interested in enforcing them?

[Bishop]

So you consider it fair that my reward for sticking with the game I love is seeing cheaters prosper - again?

You have the tools necessary to delete them.
You know who they are, and I know you know who they are. I know Spiritcreeper knew who they are.

Yet nothing is being done, and they've all been granted 'amnesty' again.
I put forth my question once more: why have rules when you're not interested in enforcing them?

Previous cheat reports, due to the nature of their time sensitivity, are in many cases not possible to validate.

Perhaps you think it acceptable that every cheat report is acted on without retrieving evidence? I admire your trusting attitude.

If you have evidence of someone cheating please present it to Thundergore at utopiasupport@utopia-game.com

[Thundergore]

I put forth my question once more: why have rules when you're not interested in enforcing them?

You have only your own assumptions to fuel the second clause of your question. I am very interested in enforcing rules.

You also have a history of resentment to fall back on. I recall, long ago it seems, having this same discussion with you. Though the support may shift and weave, right now it is 'Thundergore'. I'm trying to fix things as best I can while the developers work on what they can.

You may not care about that but I don't care about anything that came before me. I won't apologise for anything but what I do (or feel a CM should apologise for). If you feel I have before declared that I will deal with exploiters 'now' and the 'now' never arrived - tell me. I would hate to think I have. If you feel I have something to apologise for tell me (in a relevant thread) and I'll weigh up the possibility that I've erred.

This thread is for discussing the announced approach. I ask you to set aside your frustration (which I understand but can't let rule the boards any more than we want cheaters to rule the game) and word your posts with relevance to the announcement.

For example in this instance you might have asked ''Why are the cheaters getting away with the rules they've already breached?''

To which I would reply:

Previous cheat reports, due to the nature of their time sensitivity, are in many cases not possible to validate. You may believe that deleting people because "everyone knows they cheat" or "they cheated before, they will cheat again" is a valid reason but it is not a policy that we will be employing.

Thundergore will be acting on cheat reports that can be strictly validated. Acting any other way would not be in the interest of the game.

that you have already been answered. Bishop and I are not separate entities on the boards, more a fused alien hybrid, made of fingers and arms and without a trace of humour (or so the most recent tests indicate).

BUT I may have missed the thrust of your complaint. Perhaps I've not read your complaint fully. Then again perhaps you had no query relevant to the announcement. Perhaps you are just frustrated after a long history of promises and mishandled support.

That's ok.

This I understand.

However I do spend time that I would like to devote to dev-poking, exploit verification and mail responses, on soothing such old hurts.

I do not want every thread posted to become a litany of old wounds and exchanges that requires me to make a foot-long* post repeating myself when the game that is reputedly loved hangs in the balance.

PS When I post this I have no trace of ill-feeling. Far from it, I am still fuelled with the passion to assist you folks. The day that dies is the day I'll leave (and not the other way around). So if I said anything harsh I am sorry. I'm fuelled with righteous support passion.

Edit: * at least 12 inches