can we at least agree that fascism > democracy, and communism > fascism? therefore communism > democracy, go pinkos
*Edit* so on topic, that was totally messed up on the player's behalf
can we at least agree that fascism > democracy, and communism > fascism? therefore communism > democracy, go pinkos
*Edit* so on topic, that was totally messed up on the player's behalf
Grace? Crown??I support Grime! Good job for sticking to your morals and depriving the KD of their crown.
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That vomiting sounds like Bakunin and because of that all your post is a big blurb. What you describe is anarchy and has nothing to do with democracy. Wake up.Originally Posted by Hallo
Utopia has to be saved! Join #strategy!
The darkness that surrounds us cannot hurt us. It's the darkness in our own heart that we should fear!
Yea because he intended to quit playing, not keep the province. This makes him a douchebag, and you a moron.
S E C R E T S
:)
I have proven my point.
When an opponent refuses to acknowledge another's argument as debate worthy over having different ideological views... then said argument has enough merit such that said opponent may look foolish if he (or she) were to attempt to debate it. As a result, said opponent will often limit his response to a conclusive statement that does not refute said argument but has an "aire" about it that gives the impression to others that something of great importance was said.
If this statement is about unlawful contracts, realize that imposing restrictions on liberty, regardless of consent, is against the very notions that the united states was founded upon. Now, are you right in stating that it, by no means, correlates to democracy? Yes. What we're actually talking about is the social structure of an organization... not its method of governing. Fascism presents a small problem though, fascism is self governing, meaning that not only is it a social structure, but also a system of government. This is where the inherent problem of "democratic" and "anarchy" came about.
But, is it anarchy to allow a person to say no? Someone who refuses to pay taxes can be evicted from his home, given the government still owns the land it was built upon. Someone who maims another person can still be imprisoned for his actions. The consequences still exist, yet the person retains the right to do it.
In addition, none of what I specified actually falls into the category of anarchy. Anarchy is the belief that without a controlling body, individuals would act in accordance to their own immediate best interest. The essence of anarchy is not mass chaos or global destruction, though the media tend to portray it as such, but that the actions without consequences would lead to people performing said actions regardless of morals. Now, anarchy can lead to fascism, just as anarchy can lead to democracy... but the core of anarchy is that "people do what they want because of no fear of consequence"... if people wanted to all become farmers and live a peaceful life... heck, still anarchy! Not everyone is a serial killer at heart, nor is everyone a thief or rapist...
But it seems we have drifted from the point.
The point was, Grime performed an action that the KD did not like, because the method of setting a dispute with any KD is "Kindly pack your bags, and leave". What the KD should be asking is "what can we do to make things better". If he had not left, they would have just as likely destroyed his province anyways... which is what I wanted to illustrate. He did something to show his frustration for the KD where as you all wish to indicate that there is nothing a KD can do that would warrant a member hurting it.
And I merely wished to explain, that that IS fascism...
Just say "yes" and I'll go away.
Hallo, you're confusing someone conceding your point with someone ignoring it.
Of course it's fascist. Top kingdoms are NOT democracies. When a monarch says jump, the players don't ask questions, they jump as high as they can and ask if it's high enough. If you can't jump or can't jump high enough, you trade out of the province and go on with your life. That's the agreement you make when you join a good kingdom.
Don't like it? Don't join.
Grime broke his word. Everyone knows not to trust him anymore. Life goes on.
INFERNO OF ABSALOM
The Jew
Hallo this is Utopia, not a RL political arena, get a clue. He knew what he was signing up for when he applied for Grace.
S E C R E T S
I didnt apply to grace i was approached by grace may i point out..i havent played the game in years, i posted a topic on forum askign for a kingdom not knowing i was being approached by a top kingdom, tbh i didnt know what to expect and being the greenhorn would of liked to be let loose a bit of slack, seeing the first age is in my eyes a gettng to grips with how the kingdom works but after being pushed away in my eyes, i felt the need to inflict hurt into a kingdom to which i believe i just wasted a age with. Now if i wish to play again i have to start all over.
So yea doing what i done was my way of saying thanks for a wasted age, and if anyone wants to argue with that..... sue me because i find that fair.
So basically you are an immature child who throws a tantrum instead of simply trying to work it out or moving on peacefully.
S E C R E T S
Thank you for making my point.
The reason I called KDs fascist was not some political statement, nor a presentation of alternative ideology. It was because you cannot "work things out" with a fascist regime. Thus far, all I've heard people preach "it is what it is, and if you can't handle it, you can leave".
"It is what it is, and if you can't handle it, you can leave." Where is the room for negotiation? For compromise? How could Grime EVER work things out if the KD was unwilling to conform to HIS needs? Grime was given a single choice, "leave our kd". It's not a discussion, a negotiation... he was told to leave, and what everyone expects is for him to leave.
You want to claim he was under some formal oath? Go right ahead. Claim that what he did was rude, selfish? I have not disputed that.
But what he did is what you can expect of an individual being confronted by fascists. He stood up, drew in his breath, made a small submissive gesture ... then, with his last dying breath, bellowed "FREEEEEDOOOOOOOM!!!"
Just say "yes" and I'll go away.
Hallo, apparently you lack the ability to read. He was asked about his tardiness to waves, and he defected like a little kid. He never made an attempt to make anything work, and I can tell by his attitude that Grace is telling the truth here.
S E C R E T S
Yep... but it does not refute my claims that as fascists, an individual is likely to act out.
Just say "yes" and I'll go away.
Fascism wins crowns.
Democracy gets farmed.
Nothing else matters.
Nobody holds a gun to your head and makes you join the fascists, but if you do, you follow the law.
INFERNO OF ABSALOM
The Jew
Hallo, you seem to be missing one very important fact: It doesn't happen often.
To say that an individual is likely to act out, that it is more likely than not, is an obvious lie. Or skewing of facts, however you wish to look at it.
There is a general feeling of outrage that a player would take this path, that outrage stemming from the fact that it doesn't happen very often.
Utopia is like the military, there is a chain of command. If you don't do what the leadership tells you to do to their satisfaction, their recourse is to replace you.
You as a player in a kingdom, have an ability to suggest change, to express discontent, and come to a compromise. You are not morally entitled to defect. Yes, clearly Grime had the ability to, and in fact did defect, but the main problem is that it's simply not right. It's akin to a member of an army platoon running out to surrender and giving away his platoon's position. It's undeniably a dick move. That is all.
Your argument, if I understand, is that the mere structure of a kingdom, that element of fascism, causes people to engage in these dick behaviours. You are wrong. It rarely happens, which is the reason for this outrage. I thank the stars that the majority of the world understands hierarchy and the need to respect the chain of command. I shudder to think what kind of world we'd live in otherwise.
That is same, you asked to play in a kingdom. They told you the requirements. You agreed. You didn't kept your word. You're a reliability.
That part... I believe you. That doesn't mean you can do with the kingdom's asset whatever you want.
So... they told you the requirements, you failed to keep your word, they asked you about the reason of the problem, so you go hysterical... pfffff
Next time you search for a kingdom, you should know that you're a ghetto player, and you will allways be, so you avoid this kind of idiotic behavior.
Utopia has to be saved! Join #strategy!
The darkness that surrounds us cannot hurt us. It's the darkness in our own heart that we should fear!
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