The Left's Collapse

[Cyclops DB]

I know and around and around we go.

The bottom line is this, none of know for sure what is out there now do we? We make these great assumptions and we can make some really great calculations but we still don't know. Why I say as long as some one has a reasonable theory have at it. That's right most are taught just one. BIG BANG! What if there was no big bang but a continuous cycle that the Universe goes through. Creationism? Why not we are just a tiny micro speck anyway in the universe. Intelligent design? again why not? O" that's right we humans are the finest evolved beings in the universe aren't we? Well, we are in our own Solar system and in our own minds.

You can't start teaching people things for which there is no evidence, not in a public school anyway. I have no problem with people teaching things like that in private schools. People can seek that out if they want.

Science is about evidence. There is plenty of evidence which supports the theory of the big bang. There is no evidence to support creationism. Literally, zero. I don't want to be force-fed 'theories' that can't be supported. If I want to learn about religion, I'll take a college philosophy class that covers it.

ID is nothing more than a movement attempting to push religion on people by pretending it's science, because the religious right no longer seems content with simply having faith.

And I just feel like I should point out that "Why not?" is not the question you should be asking when deciding what should be taught to students. "Why not?" is tantamount to drawing subjects out of a hat.

[Pestermenot]

YID is nothing more than a movement attempting to push religion on people by pretending it's science, because the religious right no longer seems content with simply having faith.

+1

And again I say, that's what church is for, too bad that they aren't happy keeping it in church.

[Hanoumatoi]

I know and around and around we go.

The bottom line is this, none of know for sure what is out there now do we? We make these great assumptions and we can make some really great calculations but we still don't know. Why I say as long as some one has a reasonable theory have at it. That's right most are taught just one. BIG BANG! What if there was no big bang but a continuous cycle that the Universe goes through. Creationism? Why not we are just a tiny micro speck anyway in the universe. Intelligent design? again why not? O" that's right we humans are the finest evolved beings in the universe aren't we? Well, we are in our own Solar system and in our own minds.

Here's the problem: One of the things you just mentioned is a theory, the other two aren't.
The Big Bang makes predictions about our world which are falsifiable, creationism and intelligent design do not (and the ones that people suggest they might put forward have been proven false).
Again, you cannot reasonably compare Evolutionary Theory with Creationism or ID, because one of them is a rigorous scientific theory, and the other two are just "maybe this is true".
If you want to compare them, give us something which we could test which would DISPROVE creationism or ID, and we can talk. Until then, you're just throwing up the same straw men over and over.

[Rockie Cantais]

Here's the problem: One of the things you just mentioned is a theory, the other two aren't.
The Big Bang makes predictions about our world which are falsifiable, creationism and intelligent design do not (and the ones that people suggest they might put forward have been proven false).
Again, you cannot reasonably compare Evolutionary Theory with Creationism or ID, because one of them is a rigorous scientific theory, and the other two are just "maybe this is true".
If you want to compare them, give us something which we could test which would DISPROVE creationism or ID, and we can talk. Until then, you're just throwing up the same straw men over and over.

Until then, ;)

[Magn]

I know and around and around we go.

The bottom line is this, none of know for sure what is out there now do we? We make these great assumptions and we can make some really great calculations but we still don't know. Why I say as long as some one has a reasonable theory have at it. That's right most are taught just one. BIG BANG! What if there was no big bang but a continuous cycle that the Universe goes through. Creationism? Why not we are just a tiny micro speck anyway in the universe. Intelligent design? again why not? O" that's right we humans are the finest evolved beings in the universe aren't we? Well, we are in our own Solar system and in our own minds.

A good scientist will show humility and accept that he will reach a point where he will raise his hands apologetically and says that he doesn't know.

However, before he reaches that point, there will be plenty of things that he will know.

I don't have a problem with religion trying to fill the gap about what we don't know, but I do have a problem when religion delves into the field of what we do know and try to tell scientists how to do their job.

Furthermore, there is a humble approach to the unknown and then there is the "the universe was created in our image and we must be the center of it" approach to the unknown.

I mean, I could believe that that giant spaghetti monster created the universe and that when we die, he will take us to him and feed us spaghetti for all eternity and we will forevermore be united in the glorious feast (our spiritual stomach will also have infinite capacity so that we can eat spaghetti indefinitely without any discomfort).

Oh, and those who don't like spaghetti will go to the abyss where they will eat dust for all eternity.

Rationally, how likely is that hypothesis compared to the infinity of hypotheses that are out there?

Isn't it rather likely that I just created that reality for myself to try to rationalize what I don't comprehend with concepts that are inherently familiar and reassuring to my intellect?

[Rockie Cantais]

First of all you can teach creationism and intelligent design in public schools if you place it it the correct course. Would I place it in the Science area probably not but I bet you could find a way to work it in.

Creationism - A divine being created the Universe and all within but not bound to its rules. This itself can be broken down into different beliefs.

Intelligent Design - A being created or is apart of the Creation process but is bound by the rules of the Universe. This can also have many variations.

Regardless there are scientist who are working on this. Public schools are becoming much like the old religious schools, closed minded to new ideas! Unless its about big government and a hive mentality. I understand your argument but all I am saying is think outside the box. That is one thing people today have a hard problem with.

[Magn]

First of all you can teach creationism and intelligent design in public schools if you place it it the correct course. Would I place it in the Science area probably not but I bet you could find a way to work it in.

The problem (as I said) is that given the body of evidence that we have, evolution is infinitely more likely than ID.

Evolution is a scientific theory while ID is a matter of religious faith.

Until hard scientific evidence supports ID, it cannot be taught in science class (because scientific evidence doesn't support it).

It could be taught in religion classes.

I know that were I went to school, we had both science classes and religion classes (the science classes were mandatory, the religion classes were optional which is fair as not everyone is Christian).

Then again, religion classes that want to be somewhat adaptive of modern realities could review the Genesis (which they did in my religion classes), but shouldn't stress too much about its veracity compared to hard scientific evidence (again, there is a great deal of intellectual rigor that went into the scientific process, a lot of really really smart people dedicated their lives to it).

Creationism - A divine being created the Universe and all within but not bound to its rules. This itself can be broken down into different beliefs.

Actually, no.

Creationism is much more specific then that.

It follows the idea of the Bible that god created the world in a very short time and made the species the way they are now.

Evolution doesn't exclude the possibility that an all powerful being created the universe though if that would be the case, it would disagree with Creationism as to the method the being employed.

The theory of evolution limits itself to what can be verified and doesn't make further claims than that as any good scientific theory should.

Intelligent Design - A being created or is apart of the Creation process but is bound by the rules of the Universe. This can also have many variations.

Actually, ID is Creationism. The former concept was created by the religiously inclined to try support the later in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

I applaud their courage, but they are misguided.

Rather than force the Bible down people's throat, they should parse and review their belief system if they want to hang on to some of their tenets.

Regardless there are scientist who are working on this. Public schools are becoming much like the old religious schools, closed minded to new ideas! Unless its about big government and a hive mentality. I understand your argument but all I am saying is think outside the box. That is one thing people today have a hard problem with.

The primary mandate of school is to make people functional in modern society.

At its most basic level, there isn't a whole lot to debate.

Grammar is what it is. 1+1=2.

As you go further in your learning, you will be afforded more latitude.

In high school, science classes are not about avant-garde theories.

They focus on the rock-solid scientific models that have been supported over and over by countless experiments (well, in all fairness, it doesn't discuss much about relativist extensions to Newtonian physics, but that's probably because most teens are not ready to delve into that level of complexity).

[Pestermenot]

First of all you can teach creationism and intelligent design in public schools if you place it it the correct course. Would I place it in the Science area probably not but I bet you could find a way to work it in.

Creationism - A divine being created the Universe and all within but not bound to its rules. This itself can be broken down into different beliefs.

Intelligent Design - A being created or is apart of the Creation process but is bound by the rules of the Universe. This can also have many variations.

Regardless there are scientist who are working on this. Public schools are becoming much like the old religious schools, closed minded to new ideas! Unless its about big government and a hive mentality. I understand your argument but all I am saying is think outside the box. That is one thing people today have a hard problem with.

This only applies to private schools as there is NO definiable creationism/ID that can be proven/disproven. Public school is for the KNOWN, not the SPECULATED.

[Rockie Cantais]

This only applies to private schools as there is NO definiable creationism/ID that can be proven/disproven. Public school is for the KNOWN, not the SPECULATED.

Why they teach Theories?