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Thread: The Left's Collapse

  1. #61
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    I would love if the left collapesed in Ireland, any sort of remotely right of centre comment here gets you labeled racist or fascist

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Safri View Post
    I would love if the left collapesed in Ireland, any sort of remotely right of centre comment here gets you labeled racist or fascist
    I think a big problem with the right in many countries is that its adherents often try to bundle up an economic doctrine with a whole bunch of other non-related beliefs.

    If you take the US as an example, if you are on the right, you must support governement deregulation of the economy AND be against abortion AND be again gay marriage AND be pro gun rights AND support various foreign wars.

    This is because they tend to have a main right-wing party that bundles all those independant ideologies together in a single package.

    Conservatives in my country are experiencing a similar issue with regard to conservatism and the right-left political spectrum. In essence, our conservative party merged with a right-wing party and now they bundled the conservative economic policies with the right-wing agenda together (which upsets my father to no end as he is a conservative and a moderate... he essentially doesn't have a party to vote for now and tend to support independants).
    Last edited by Magn; 29-08-2010 at 20:32.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rockie Cantais View Post
    You see there is a left for without it there is no right!
    A-ha, so you agree with me that the initial premise is ridiculous.

    I'm suprised the topic is still going; though, it seems that almost all of the posts are off-topic.

  4. #64
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    It really comes down how you define Left and Right. I learned long ago that not everyone will agree on how it is defined. He who controls the language controls the argument and that is all we have been discussing here is the language. From what I have read here most of you have no real understanding of America's Left and Right, neither do some Americans.

    Is the Left collapsing? I doubt it much like the Liberals, Progressives, Socialist here in the USA were calling 2008 the collapse of the Right 2 years ago.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rockie Cantais View Post
    It really comes down how you define Left and Right. I learned long ago that not everyone will agree on how it is defined. He who controls the language controls the argument and that is all we have been discussing here is the language. From what I have read here most of you have no real understanding of America's Left and Right, neither do some Americans.

    Is the Left collapsing? I doubt it much like the Liberals, Progressives, Socialist here in the USA were calling 2008 the collapse of the Right 2 years ago.
    You can't just talk about America's idea of what is Left (assuming Americans have an unified definition for it, I seriously doubt that), when you talk about the 'Left'.

    You are talking to an international audience.

    Be mindful of context.

    Vocabulary becomes and issue mainly when people insist on arguing about generic things using lousely defined words (something of which I am guilty myself on occasion).

    Perhaps that by limiting the scope of the discussions, a more intelligent debate might follow.
    Last edited by Magn; 05-10-2010 at 06:12.

  6. #66
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    That is a very good point I do forget that there is an international audience here.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rockie Cantais View Post
    It really comes down how you define Left and Right. I learned long ago that not everyone will agree on how it is defined. He who controls the language controls the argument and that is all we have been discussing here is the language. From what I have read here most of you have no real understanding of America's Left and Right, neither do some Americans.

    Is the Left collapsing? I doubt it much like the Liberals, Progressives, Socialist here in the USA were calling 2008 the collapse of the Right 2 years ago.
    The right is collapsing in the US. That why you have the emergence of the Tea Party.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fates Warning View Post
    The right is collapsing in the US. That why you have the emergence of the Tea Party.
    LOL, Much like the 2008 election of Barrack Obama and the Take over of the government by the Democrats was.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PX7xjAs1UuA

  9. #69
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    Mid-term's elections in America is in a few weeks and the Democrat are going to lose. The real question is how bad will they lose? They will lose 40+ seat in the House maybe even more up to 55 at least. I have heard up to 90-100 seats lost. The Senate they lose 5-9 seats maybe more. I have heard up to 12 seats lost. Nov. 2 election and America will change its course again. Will Hillary run against Obama for the Demarcate nomination for 2012? Who will run for the Republicans in 2012 and the Tea Party are getting rid of the RINO's. (Republicans In Name Only).

    So while I know not what is happening in your country here the Left is collapsing to a degree. Wouldn't call it a total collapse by any mean of the imagination yet.

  10. #70
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    I like the 0:25-0:28 part. Its fittingly ironic since its essentially what he's doing: substituting political substrance for showmanship.

    Will Hillary run against Obama for the Demarcate nomination for 2012? Who will run for the Republicans in 2012 and the Tea Party are getting rid of the RINO's. (Republicans In Name Only).
    Thats the spirit. Flush out the moderates in the party. They aren't quite right-wing enough anyways.

    Its all about the far right vs the far left and everyone's gotta pick a side right?
    Last edited by Magn; 21-10-2010 at 13:36.

  11. #71
    Post Fiend Rockie Cantais's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magn View Post
    I like the 0:25-0:28 part. Its fittingly ironic since its essentially what he's doing: substituting political substrance for showmanship.
    Its a music video to inspire!

    Quote Originally Posted by Magn View Post
    Thats the spirit. Flush out the moderates in the party. They aren't quite right-wing enough anyways.

    Its all about the far right vs the far left and everyone's gotta pick a side right?
    What is a moderate? someone who has yet to make up his/her mind on where they stand. What is left and Right? Depends on the person own perspective because some don't even recognize there is a Right and Left. No matter where you stand as an individual everyone else will be either right or left of you. So the majority of us in the Republican Party/Tea Party have decide to say we stand here and you can stand with us or to the left or right of us. The Republican Party Leadership is now standing Left of the Tea Party and will be given one last chance to join us. The ball is in their court and they can decide. We have no problem with forming a New Party for we have not left them they have left us. The Democrats are so Far Left we all wonder if they have gone off the deep end. So it may appear to outsiders we are either one extreme or another but we are deciding the future of our country and in this political struggle there can be no fence sitters. Its not like we haven't done this before but the years between 2010 and 2012 will be the most interesting.

  12. #72
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    1. Your democrats are only "Left" in your own country. They'd be at most a center party in lots of other countries.
    2. The so called Tea Party really hasn't done much to improve the reputation of the US. Most of the people I know thought it was a joke party when they first heard of it (not referring to the name).

  13. #73
    Post Fiend Rockie Cantais's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luc View Post
    1. Your democrats are only "Left" in your own country. They'd be at most a center party in lots of other countries.
    2. The so called Tea Party really hasn't done much to improve the reputation of the US. Most of the people I know thought it was a joke party when they first heard of it (not referring to the name).
    Must not be paying attention to what the Democrats have been doing lately then. I would agree with #1 if we were talking about the old Dem's.

    Maybe one should do their own research on the Tea Party? I mean why trust the state run media outlets that only gives the government side of things? Regardless of who is in power its better to trust original sources. You may find it to your liking or not if you like Tyrants.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rockie Cantais View Post
    What is a moderate? someone who has yet to make up his/her mind on where they stand. What is left and Right? Depends on the person own perspective because some don't even recognize there is a Right and Left. No matter where you stand as an individual everyone else will be either right or left of you. So the majority of us in the Republican Party/Tea Party have decide to say we stand here and you can stand with us or to the left or right of us. The Republican Party Leadership is now standing Left of the Tea Party and will be given one last chance to join us. The ball is in their court and they can decide. We have no problem with forming a New Party for we have not left them they have left us. The Democrats are so Far Left we all wonder if they have gone off the deep end. So it may appear to outsiders we are either one extreme or another but we are deciding the future of our country and in this political struggle there can be no fence sitters. Its not like we haven't done this before but the years between 2010 and 2012 will be the most interesting.
    If someone commits murder, the two polar opposites is to let the man go free, or to execute him. So by being in favour of imprisonment of some duration, you're saying I haven't made up my mind?

    The Tea Party isn't a real political party. I hope you realise that. "Tea Party" candidates run in Republican primaries. It's a faction of the Republican Party who are.... in favour of Republican values. I can find very little inherently different between the "Tea Party" and the rest of the Republican Party.

    The fact is that the two-party system is inherently flawed. The ability of the Republicans to maintain a united stance increasingly polarises the conversation, which in turn leads to the craziest voices being the most powerful. What with the Republicans and Democrats calling each other Communists, Socialists, Fascists, etc etc etc. Not to mention that capitalism renders media ineffective in reporting the actual situation, as it means that media organisations have preference towards sensationalism, further polarising the country.

    The fact that you, Rockie Cantais, refer to the entirety of the Democratic Party, a party in which the majority of registered voters in the US identifies with, as tyrants, is a reflection of that polarisation.

    That polarisation means that no important issues can be effectively dealt with, such as the inherent corruption in your government.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cero View Post
    If someone commits murder, the two polar opposites is to let the man go free, or to execute him. So by being in favour of imprisonment of some duration, you're saying I haven't made up my mind?
    NO,

    Quote Originally Posted by Cero View Post
    The Tea Party isn't a real political party. I hope you realise that. "Tea Party" candidates run in Republican primaries. It's a faction of the Republican Party who are.... in favour of Republican values. I can find very little inherently different between the "Tea Party" and the rest of the Republican Party.
    Duh!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cero View Post
    The fact is that the two-party system is inherently flawed. The ability of the Republicans to maintain a united stance increasingly polarises the conversation, which in turn leads to the craziest voices being the most powerful. What with the Republicans and Democrats calling each other Communists, Socialists, Fascists, etc etc etc. Not to mention that capitalism renders media ineffective in reporting the actual situation, as it means that media organisations have preference towards sensationalism, further polarising the country.
    What do you prefer, Total government control? Democrats are not bad people nor are the Republicans . The Blue Blood Elites, Belt Way Boys or whatever you want of both parties are the real problem and yes some are Marxist, Socialist, Communist, Fascist or whatever big Government name you want to give them. Capitalism the form of commerce we have is not a form of government. Take that back its a hybrid of Capitalism/socialism for the last 100 years, D#$% Progressive people. Nothing wrong with making a buck and having everyone moving up at the same time. Depends on which media outlet you watch. Don't tell me its NBC, CNN or those far left New Papers. Still lets them have their say, its fun listen to their crazy rants.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cero View Post
    The fact that you, Rockie Cantais, refer to the entirety of the Democratic Party, a party in which the majority of registered voters in the US identifies with, as tyrants, is a reflection of that polarisation.
    Hey! you use my name! Cero. Just the Leadership and I wouldn't say its the majority at all just about 30% of the population. Independents Rule!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cero View Post
    That polarisation means that no important issues can be effectively dealt with, such as the inherent corruption in your government.
    It also means they can't screw it up anymore than they have! Its all in motion and goes in cycles.

    Bottom Line: We Americans don't like to be told what to do even by our own government. Watch this Tuesday and see what I mean.
    Last edited by Rockie Cantais; 30-10-2010 at 02:20.

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