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Thread: Another KD bites the dust

  1. #16
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    Yeah, I know of multiple provinces that were on white list that were deleted for having multiple accounts on same IP, soooooooo unclear about how to reconcile "provs on white list do not get deleted for having multiple accounts on the same ip" with "provs on white list were deleted for multiple accounts on the same IP"
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  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bishop View Post
    if they were deleted incorrectly then they will be re-instated, but deletions are not made without strong evidence.
    BS

    The devs are too incompetent to find their ass from their elbow why the hell would they be able to tell legit provinces from cheaters? I've suffered some deletions from provs that I know are played completely fairly. They buy sitting credits when they go out of town and don't interact on the same IP. The 'evidence' thundergore has is logging in from different IPs. God forbid players actually have lives and log in at different places. Or god forbid thundergore check up on this activity instead of just blindly deleting customers.

  3. #18
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    This 'guilty until proven innocent' mentality at jolt or omac or whatever the hell they call themselves will run the game into the ground. I didn't play honest for all these years to have my people unfairly deleted without a reasonable explanation.

  4. #19
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    really, you know they are played fairly? it is awesome you physically visit your friends and watch how they play - just make sure you dont log into your own account while you are at their place.

    You need to look at it from their point of view. This game has a horrible rep for cheating - if you are logging in the same place as a kdmate how else do you expect to be treated? If you suddenly log in from the other side of the world then yes, you should expect to be considered a cheater.

    The devs stance on cheating was mentioned in announcements and throne room links several times. It is your job to inform them of your situation ahead of time.
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  5. #20
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    :D :) :( ;) :DD :)) :'( :P :L :O :o

  6. #21
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    really, you know they are played fairly? it is awesome you physically visit your friends and watch how they play - just make sure you dont log into your own account while you are at their place.
    And you wonder why everyone hates you? Yes I know they play fairly because I am on council of said kingdom and had some other council members deleted. I've sent these people texts at 2 am and it was them that came online, not someone else, them. Please don't patronize me because you ran a crappy ghetto. I know my kingdom didn't cheat just like you knew your ghetto didn't cheat (didn't you?). These aren't newbs that were deleted, they were long time players who have thrown in a good deal of money on credits. Why would these people cheat?

    I made it clear in my post no one logged from the same place. Thundergore's evidence was only that people were on different IPs. God forbid many of these people have lives and were going on family vacations given that it's summer. We buy credits when people go to places where they won't have net access, and apparently we should start forking over money when people do go to places with net access since logging in when you're on vacation is a deletable offense.
    Last edited by Bishop; 23-06-2010 at 18:55.

  7. #22
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    Ask Absoslums how to proxy cheat better, they dont even try to hide theri multis anymore

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheech View Post
    And you wonder why everyone hates you? Yes I know they play fairly because I am on council of said kingdom and had some other council members deleted. I've sent these people texts at 2 am and it was them that came online, not someone else, them. Please don't patronize me because you ran a crappy ghetto. I know my kingdom didn't cheat just like you knew your ghetto didn't cheat (didn't you?). These aren't newbs that were deleted, they were long time players who have thrown in a good deal of money on credits. Why would these people cheat?

    I made it clear in my post no one logged from the same place. Thundergore's evidence was only that people were on different IPs. God forbid many of these people have lives and were going on family vacations given that it's summer. We buy credits when people go to places where they won't have net access, and apparently we should start forking over money when people do go to places with net access since logging in when you're on vacation is a deletable offense.
    or you could simply tell the support team about your situation. not that difficult.
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  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bishop View Post
    really, you know they are played fairly? it is awesome you physically visit your friends and watch how they play - just make sure you dont log into your own account while you are at their place.

    You need to look at it from their point of view. This game has a horrible rep for cheating - if you are logging in the same place as a kdmate how else do you expect to be treated? If you suddenly log in from the other side of the world then yes, you should expect to be considered a cheater.

    The devs stance on cheating was mentioned in announcements and throne room links several times. It is your job to inform them of your situation ahead of time.
    Explain to me how a married couple living under the same roof is supposed to NOT have the same IP?

    As I discussed with Thundergore in PM, mistakes happen, but there needs to be a process for exception handling. These people WERE on the white list and sent in an email with regards to what they needed to do to prove they are who they say they are, but have been only receiving stock responses that say their issue must be one of the ones listed. At this point, I believe their current plan is to scan and send a copy of their marriage license.

    I also know of a player and his brother who were on the white list for over 8 years, going back the Mehul's original white list, but were not transferred over to the new list. One player plays in a complete ghetto, the other in a top 10 kingdom. The provinces did not interact at all - they do not attack, hit or target similar targets or each other, do not even talk in game or otherwise touch one another. The only relation between them was shared IPs, which they had informed Swirve of over 8 years ago. That'd be 8 years of playing on the same IP without an issue until this week.

    That's now two cases I've seen where the white list did not stop provinces from being deleted. If it's our responsibility to inform them ahead of time AND WE DID and we are still deleted...I don't see what else we can do. Unfortunately, no recourse has been given to resolve these issues - any emails have been met with stock responses assuring the players that they were caught and are guilty for one of a set list of reasons.

    I'm happy to look at it from "their point of view" and understand that there will be mistakes made during a much-needed purge of cheating. However, there must be recourse to handle incidents that where innocent players are caught up. As I wrote to Thundergore...

    "You've put a lot of faith in these tools, but doing so removes any possible way for players to build faith in the stability of their provinces. I happen to live three blocks from where one kingdom-mate works and two blocks from where another kingdom-mate goes to school - it is New York City, there are many players from here. All it takes is one random twist of fate and we'd be gone."

    There is no way for me to know if PhiWha, who worked at the same company as me, or Big, who lives in the same city, or Stormi2ider, who goes to school blocks from my apartment, will show up on my IP. There are likely dozens more players in the same city as me. What happens if we both frequent the same Starbucks? Am I supposed to send the developers a list of my locations? What do I do when I travel for work to Utah and Phoenix and have IPs from spots all the way across the country?

    I'm glad that you guys have stepped up on your crackdown on cheating, and I'm willing to accept that there will be incidents where innocent players get deleted, but if the policy has become that we need to inform you of any infractions before they happen and have no recourse for recovery if we do so ex post facto, it might be time for me to retire.
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  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRock View Post
    There is no way for me to know if PhiWha, who worked at the same company as me, or Big, who lives in the same city, or Stormi2ider, who goes to school blocks from my apartment, will show up on my IP. There are likely dozens more players in the same city as me. What happens if we both frequent the same Starbucks? Am I supposed to send the developers a list of my locations? What do I do when I travel for work to Utah and Phoenix and have IPs from spots all the way across the country?
    When they announced the new anti-cheating system I tried very hard to explain why it sucked and why it wouldn't work well. Did they care? No.
    You cannot have an IP based policy nowadays and not constantly bump into this kind of problems.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRock View Post
    That's now two cases I've seen where the white list did not stop provinces from being deleted.
    wrong, they werent whitelisted - you need to apply this age,not the one 8 years ago.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheRock View Post
    There is no way for me to know if PhiWha, who worked at the same company as me, or Big, who lives in the same city, or Stormi2ider, who goes to school blocks from my apartment, will show up on my IP. There are likely dozens more players in the same city as me. What happens if we both frequent the same Starbucks? Am I supposed to send the developers a list of my locations? What do I do when I travel for work to Utah and Phoenix and have IPs from spots all the way across the country?
    If you play in the same kingdom? - obviously you should make sure you have this noted. And again yes, if you travel a lot get it noted. Takes about 30 seconds maybe?

    Quote Originally Posted by announcement
    We would like to reiterate that you need to be proactive and inform us of any action/s that could be considered suspicious before the cheat system flags you. Evidence after the deed is rarely sufficient, as it is indistinguishable from the pleas of the guilty.
    ^^ that doesn't mean come complaining after you get deleted. If you feel it is not clear enough then we can edit it.
    Last edited by Bishop; 23-06-2010 at 20:55. Reason: added announcment reference
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  12. #27
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    Again. Just because you talk to these people does not mean that you KNOW they were not engaged in cheating. They *could* be x-logging. They *could* be playing multi provinces etc...

    I have a hard time believeing they are deleting with no proof or suspicious activity.

  13. #28
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    It's strange how everbody now seems to get punished for crimes they claim not to have done.
    Really, now - our overlords are generous enough to provide you with legal trading, legal X-logging, and legal multies, yet you still get deleted?

    Maybe you shouldn't play this game.
    Catwalk's crusade for legalized cheating was a stunning success, with ghettos and low-tiered teams everywhere losing their wells of knowledge to better kingdoms in the process.

    Step one: replace everything that works.
    Step two: blame the predictable epic fail on outside forces.
    Step three: keep the community informed that no progress has been made since the last update.
    Step four: thank you for your patience.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bishop View Post
    wrong, they werent whitelisted - you need to apply this age,not the one 8 years ago.
    One was on the old white list - certainly, not knowing that the whitelists were not rolled forward is not an unforgiveable sin. However, the other set actually WAS whitelisted. As in, sent in the email to OMAC.


    If you play in the same kingdom? - obviously you should make sure you have this noted. And again yes, if you travel a lot get it noted. Takes about 30 seconds maybe?
    I go to Starbucks in New York City. I work in an office building with thousands of other people. What do I do then? Do I need to tell OMAC that I live in New York? Also, up until this moment I have seen no notice or reason posted anywhere that I need to note my travel plans with OMAC. In this day and age, people travel all the time - some more than others, sure, but people move. Do I need a general note that I'm traveling or should I add that to my checklist of things to do before I leave for a trip?

    ^^ that doesn't mean come complaining after you get deleted. If you feel it is not clear enough then we can edit it.
    I'm still confused as to how two players who were on OMAC's (note - not Mehul, OMAC) whitelist could have done more than they've done. Likewise, I'm confounded how a player that actually was on the whitelist under Mehul but did not know that he had to renew this under OMAC is being not only deleted, but then denied an appeal.

    If the process leaves no room for appeal with the proper evidence and logic, then there's really no point playing anymore. Anyone living in a big city or country can find a new way to get deleted fairly easily, through no means of their own, and since I'm still being stonewalled with regards to what to do for any sort of appeals beyond "Email support so they can send you a standard response and not take any appeals", I don't see how I can sit here and wait to be deleted.
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  15. #30
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    you can appeal sure - if you have previous whitelist proof then you'll probably be reinstated. If you only tell support after they deleted you that you and your wife and your neighbour and your dog all play uto in the same kd then you will not be reinstated.
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