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Thread: Another KD bites the dust

  1. #46
    I like to post Catwalk's Avatar
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    Better play it safe and cancel the trip :)
    For Master of Magic fans:

    Quote Originally Posted by Dylan Collins, CEO of OMAC
    You should ask as many people as you can to criticise what you plan on doing.

  2. #47
    007 licence to post Anri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluefaerydust View Post
    for the record - i am going to nyc soon -- so what starbucks should I avoid? dont want to get anyone deleted --
    I have written support about my traveling a few times times - support has never responded to that or to the fact that i have brothers and people living in the same cities playing in my kd even though they wrote omac ---

    so yeah since they dont reply - should I also send in plane tickets before I go?
    What CW said!
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  3. #48
    007 licence to post Anri's Avatar
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    Btw, i am going to Crete for 1 month this summer, i better kiss this game goodbye..
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  4. #49
    Post Fiend Kalera's Avatar
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    Can you get a refund on that ticket Anri??

  5. #50
    Dear Friend Korp's Avatar
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    Btw, i am going to Crete for 1 month this summer, i better kiss this game goodbye..
    If you have time for playing utopia while you are there you are doing something wrong!

  6. #51
    Forum Fanatic Darkz Azn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluefaerydust View Post
    for the record - i am going to nyc soon -- so what starbucks should I avoid? dont want to get anyone deleted --
    I have written support about my traveling a few times times - support has never responded to that or to the fact that i have brothers and people living in the same cities playing in my kd even though they wrote omac ---

    so yeah since they dont reply - should I also send in plane tickets before I go?
    Avoid the 3 starbucks in Union Square ... I already login to them last week
    and the one in Chelsea by the ice rink ... I also login there
    err ... Brooklyn, 18th Ave 65th St, avoid that one
    Broadway and Spring ... done
    W55 8th Ave ... did that

    Yea ... Those are the one I can recall login from ... =)


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  7. #52
    Forum Fanatic Darkz Azn's Avatar
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    Oh yea ... East Side Cafe and Ciao Now avoid these area too... =)

    Bayside Bar, Connolly Bar, Patty Pub, Green Spa, and The Coffee Shop ... they got free wifi ... login from my phone there ... =) Be careful =)


    and the 50s other places in K-town and Little Saigon ... =)


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  8. #53
    Game Support Bishop's Avatar
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    unless you think there is a good chance that the Starbucks you randomly choose also has a kdmate playing from it i'd say you'll be fine. No-one is saying you cannot travel and log in from different places.

    These mechanisms are put in place to stop people that are cheating - you know, they ones that say "oh, did i forget to mention that i frequently make a 3k mile roundtrip and that i stay with a kdmate who runs a gnome province. It is purely co-incidence that i only attack after he has intelled a province".

    It is extremely unlikely that a legitimate player will tick all those boxes in a normal situation.
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  9. #54
    Former Community Manager Thundergore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheech View Post
    Actually Bishop we were just told we suffered one of our deletions because a guy went from europe to china on business. He had to show a plane ticket and still thundergore said it was too late to reinstate his province. One would think a competent programmer would put something in the deletion system that lets him bring innocent players back, but instead we have to throw away a valuable move code. Essentially, it seems like omac wants everyone to notify OMAC every time they log in from somewhere other than their homes.
    Seeing that I am <checks username> Thundergore and you're directly referencing myself here, on these boards, I thought I'd wade in pre-emptively (I'm working on the matter as a whole right now - I want a trademark 'Thunderbore' post on the matter, thorough and comprehensive i.e. long). Put very simply - the quoted writing above is just one of several fabrications that have emerged. It is a multi-faceted piece of fiction...

    I'm going to allow for a certain 'mass-hysteria' here. A form of 'Chinese Whispers'... but basically I have not (I think it's excessive) directly asked for any 'proof' of travelling. Now there is a backlog - so there may be some keen player who has included a scan of such a document. That's a backlog though - i.e. we haven't reached it yet. So can't have read it and therefore cannot have responded with the no reported here.

    We have indeed said that preemptive word on intended trips would be beneficial. We have not however forced a player to show a plane ticket then denied a reinstatement.

    So yes, you, Cheech, have openly lied on this public board about a CM.

    I'm going to assume it's the previous options, 1 or 2 - maybe both. Hysterical Chinese Whispers.

    If anyone else fabricates information on this delicate matter I will - because lying really gets my goat - perma-ban them from the boards and (if the lie is really bad) the game. I've no time for this sort of attempted manipulation

    Now to touch on a point above - Yes, I think it is excessive, I did type that in brackets there. It doesn't mean I don't think that it's a problem that: innocent player A can claim he regularly flies around the world (and it's true), cheating player A can also claim it (and it's false) and it's nigh impossible to tell the difference.

    Importantly it's also but one tiny fragment of the deletions some are talking about. I assure you we aren't in the business of deleting someone just because it appears they play from two locations.

    This matter is important - I don't want to play it down. At the same time I'm not going to give amnesty to a certain type of lifestyle (that resembles cheating) in this game because that's what a free democracy has to do. This is an online game. We need to keep it clean and it has not been clean in a long, long time.

    So while you can provide feedback about how to improve our approach, and we'll take your concerns onboard, this process isn't going to stop. We're not going to begin overturning investigations that highlighted bucket-loads of evidence against certain Kingdoms/provinces/partnerships.

    If we get real harsh decisions, some poor sod is deleted for having two IPs logging on to one province and a support worker, in a hasty zeal of anti-cheat action, catches him - then this is the kind of case where I can see an easy reinstatement. That's clear cut.

    However we won't bow to pressure to be lenient to those who claim innocence. Someone (again warping the truth) said we've a policy of 'guilty until proven innocent'. This is ridiculous pseudo-legal talk. What we have is a policy of investigating cheat reports (and alarms raised by cheat detection) without regard for the in-game rank of the individual reported. Without regard for their public forum persona. Without regard for their private circumstances. Without regard for their physical location. Without regard for their lifestyle.

    This is unbiased action. We don't want to stop people from jet-setting to Asian internet cafes to play Utopia. Or from having a real life Kingdom meet up. We do want to stop these legitimate excuses being used as a cover for cheating.

    With forewarning (emailing us to let us know of these rare events) you'll have a better chance of convincing us that your excuses are valid. There is no surefire way (for you scheming cheats out there) to access a list, or an excuse that will 100% prevent your deletion.

    The whitelist stops automated acts against your account. If a whitelisted pair are reported and we identify with the myriad of evidence we can now gather, that they're behaving, in essence, like a single user - they're gone. I don't care if they've been whitelisted in Mehul's age, in the early 'OMAC' years. Last age. This age.

    There is no protection against illegal activity and this is the crux of the matter. 'Illegal' activity. In spite of intent, in spite of claims of innocence, in spite of excuses... we can now (better than before - though far from perfect yet) identify 'illegal activity'.

    Bottom line (and the reason that this isn't the planned, even handed response I was going to create) - don't misrepresent support publicly. I'm not going to tolerate lies about what we've asked for, nor the individuals beating their chests with innocence in the boards when privately we've seen some shocking evidence of cheating (those individuals I refer to now know who they are in spite of their claims to the contrary).

    If you've evidence of a mail or link where I have contradicted what I've talked about (with specific regard to the plane ticket fabrication) then please present it so I can correct myself and tone down my VERY irritated stance - I will also apologise for jumping the gun (if I've done so - I doubt it at the moment because I think I'd remember a plane ticket) but I am very busy.

    PS - I am not directly accusing any poster of lying (I know better than that) publicly. I merely point out that of all the 'reinstatement requests' we receive - a large portion are from players who were cheating and we know it (but can't name and shame them) but who are trained (due to the previous approach to support) to contact us and bellow about innocence.

    PPS - My PM door is always open (though as of late I seem to direct a lot of folks to the mail queue as their queries, reports or complaints are better tracked/responded to there).

    ... I guess it did become a trademark Thunderbore post after all...
    Last edited by Thundergore; 28-06-2010 at 10:55.

  10. #55
    Needs to get out more VT2's Avatar
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    Desperate times call for desperate measures, and desperate measures yield desperate designs.

    If people weren't so corrupt they can't even play by the rules, this wouldn't be necessary.
    Catwalk's crusade for legalized cheating was a stunning success, with ghettos and low-tiered teams everywhere losing their wells of knowledge to better kingdoms in the process.

    Step one: replace everything that works.
    Step two: blame the predictable epic fail on outside forces.
    Step three: keep the community informed that no progress has been made since the last update.
    Step four: thank you for your patience.

  11. #56
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    VT2 there are alternatives, tracking IP addresses is a fairly primitive approach. For instance, I was worried since the beginning about a very high rate of false positives. Although, I have to say it seems every case is being reasonably human analyzed and that they are using the system more for proof gathering upon reports than for the automatic cheating detection. Which qualms my fears quite a bit.

    Sadly, though it is cool that we have better proof mechanisms. I appear to have been right that the system doesn't work very well for detection, something anyone can tell by the sheer number of scripters in the game.

  12. #57
    Game Support Bishop's Avatar
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    There are lots of scripts? im not seeing that myself, game numbers seem to be pretty constant.
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  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkz Azn View Post
    Avoid the 3 starbucks in Union Square ... I already login to them last week
    and the one in Chelsea by the ice rink ... I also login there
    err ... Brooklyn, 18th Ave 65th St, avoid that one
    Broadway and Spring ... done
    W55 8th Ave ... did that

    Yea ... Those are the one I can recall login from ... =)
    Don't use the wifi in Madison Square Park please, I log in from there sometimes
    Also, avoid Starbucks in the Gramercy area
    If you're going for business, let me know so I can tell you which offices I log from
    Also, I log in from an AT&T phone, so if you're going to log from your mobile, please let me know so we can coordinate this with OMAC. Actually, for everyone - I call dibs on AT&T, if you must log from a phone please a different mobile network
    INFERNO OF ABSALOM
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  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bishop View Post
    unless you think there is a good chance that the Starbucks you randomly choose also has a kdmate playing from it i'd say you'll be fine. No-one is saying you cannot travel and log in from different places.

    How would most people know?
    Also, I happen to know that 12% of my kingdom lives or works within 5 blocks of my apartment. I've already reported this to OMAC though, so hooray for whitelisting!
    INFERNO OF ABSALOM
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  15. #60
    Game Support Bishop's Avatar
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    how would most people know that a kdmate logs in from the same place as them - is that what you are asking?
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