Attacker/Minor-Thief

[Kaladin]

I looking for a race/personality that will fit a strong attacker and minor-thief role. Enough thief potential to be able to steal what I need, NS a bit on moderate to weak-ish TPA targets. I'm thinking I'll have moderate down-time between wars (about 1 week+ at least), maybe 4-5 wars by age end. The focus is warring and not really growth. Activity will be average, but enough to be on at least every 6-10 hours in wars.

I was looking at:

- Human/Sage (thinking the science would help me in both aspects)
- Human/Shepherd (Space for off and science)
- Human/Warrior (is the ambush protection strongly needed for humans, their elites are pretty weak in def compared to off)
- Avian/Sage
- Avian/Shepherd (figuring i could use the extra space for off or Science)
- Orc/Tactician (Only one other person is willing to risk going orc so not sure its wise, but looks fun)

Any thoughts or pointers are welcome, and thanks.

[evokeD]

Not a lot of race can A/t.

Avian should be out of the competition. Orc is more of heavy attacker only. Orc/Tact is rather popular this age actually. So you are left with Human, Dwarf or Halfling. But the former 2 will be more interested in WT than TD thus making you more of a heavy attacker only again.

[Kaladin]

So you were saying Dwarves and Humans should run decent WTs so don't have space for TDs? What numbers should I look at for space allocated to TD as a minor thief role, or is practical to run with none?

Also does anyone know if the "Military training time: -30%" from tactician applies to thief training? and I never really noticed do thieves require wages and if so is that reduced by Tactician as well?

If I were to reduce the focus on thief even more to where I'm basically focusing on attacking and just using my thieves to get resources when needed, would that make my choices easier?

Also is avian that bad now, I know they got smacked up side the head this age but are they truly that horrible?

[carter]

I would rather run TD, it gives a modified TPA whereas WT only increase the chance of stopping Thievery ops. If you have hight raw TPA and is going for thievery ops instead of protection, then go for TD. TD is good when you have high TPA. TD doesn't work when you have 0TPA (0 times anything gives you 0) whereas WT (only catching/ stopping of ops) does.

If 2 exact same provinces with 3 raw TPA, one with 20% TD and the other with 20%WT, I would op the one with WTs instead of TD. To help you understand, think TD as the thievery version of forts + Tgs combined into one and WT as GS (WT increase chances of stopping an op, GS reduce land loss, so technically is very different).

No, military does not apply to thieves training. Easy to remember rule - "Does arms make thievery training cheaper?"

Avian Warrior is still decent but not Avian Sage (a popular choice last age, besides dwarf Sage of course). Only DE, Halfings and Gnomes are given thievery advantage this age. Human and Dwarf can make up for some of the losses (they aren't disadvantaged anyway, just not having the advantages) via thievery science and running of high TDs. Running Dwarf/Human Rouge is not advisable as well.

[Ethan]

Human A/t is strong... human is distinctly better at A/t than A/T.

Humans + Ambush : depends on your kingdom. If good, ambush matters... if semi-getto, ambush is mostly irrelevant. Warrior is good in it's own right even without the ambush prot, but Sage/Shep is better. Sage mods the tpa too, so it is the best choice if you are willing to take the risk and put in the work.

Yes TDs as an A/t - the losses are huge as well as the modding of TPA.

Gnome is another good A/T - cheaper thieves help, intel offsets their low military a bit. More kingdom benefit, less direct power. Gnome can even try A/t/m, though it risks being an a/t/m instead.

I played avian/sage last age, and despite my experience with human sage... I never reached A/T, and was A more often than A/t even. Human's better def frees space, and extra income gives extra sci, gives better A/t or A/T.

Conventional wisdom says solo orcs are suicide. 2 is effectively solo - don't try it.

[Kaladin]

Ok now I'm stuck between

Human/Sage
- Decent for A/t and give nice end age stats.

Human/Shepherd
- Seems to save space and provide pop while growing in war, also protects against the many orcs I see.

Human/Warrior
- Having -15% attack time built in seems nice, along with ambush protection and more damage... especially if I go high offense for multi-hits.

[3510733]

Why is no one mentioning dark elf/rogue? for A/T rather than A/t of course

Nice elites, better against ambushs than humans. Invisibilty is free 10% tpa. Tog is free money. You get all the yummy rogue ops + extra stealth. You could roflstomp A/M's with assassinate wizzies+nightstrike. And you can keep all selfspells on you 24/7 with no runes.

[MasterShake2129]

i think Gnome/shep or Gnome/sage could be good this age for an A/t or A/T role. the 6/0 specs, and leets that are cheaper than def specs with a low NW, will keep them out of NW range for similar acre size provinces, and give them population advantage vs provinces within their NW.