An honest discussion about the use of Homes

[citadela01]

That's not a lot at all. 100 homes give you 800 additional peasants. That's such a sad addition to the population. Not a lot of ppl from high end KDs are going to reply to this thread 'cause they don't use homes since they run KD specific strats, which might make up for weaknesses here and there. But, if you are just talking about Utopian mechanics then those provinces are not well run. Just SOT any of the top provinces and see what kinda' BE they run. Most of the utopia can't be run like them. How many of us can run a 4k acre Orc w/ 89K def points and get away w/ it?

I wont bother with BE math, if you wont take my word on it calculate it yourself. There are formulas tucked away somewhere on wiki.
Pop bonus from homes is significant, using whole numbers like you do is misleading. 0.8 ppa from homes with say 10% pop science and lord title nets 0,9 elites/acre if you can aford to train them. Even for mid lvl elite like zerk/elord w/o horse with mediocre 130 ome thats over 8 opa, not exactly what I'd call sad addition. If you wanna get into orc with 140 ome it rises to well over 11 opa.
Reason top kd's stay away from homes is because they are useless for constantly growing province, w/o time and money they would never utilize them even if they choose to run them as means of increasing opa.

On the sidenote claiming top kd's provinces are not well run cause they have low numbers is silly. They run what they can get away with ... simple as that. Their goal is not to have best possible opa/dpa but to grow as much as possible. Pace at which they are growing makes it impossible for them to run overdrafted provinces.

[Dragons Mate]

VINES IS BACK!!!

How do you get the money to train the extra troops drafted from 70% homes vines? You don't have enough jobs to tax at that point

[vines]

Dragons Mate yeah you do if you are as good as me. But no one is so that's why it's seems undoable. I will tell you this running a 95% draft is about the highest you can go. That 5% work force is all you need if you have a strong mastery of the game.

[Surrakar]

Plundering and/or stealing all the time is the only solution I can think of...

[Dragons Mate]

I understand that with the population bonus you would get from 70% homes you would be able to have a 95% draft, since you have no buildings that need workers. But since you have no jobs, you have no income!

The wages you would have to pay your military be much larger than the amount you make from taxing the 5% pezzies left (which is probably enough to fill the jobs from 30% buildings). Even if you paid a 50% wage, I don't see your military expenses being low enough for you to make a profit! Once you get in war and can't steal anything, you won't be able to pay your army resulting in a not being able to attack.


What about feeding your army? Unless you also run 20-30% farms, you can't possibly produce enough food for all those troops.

(I realize I'm just feeding the troll, but somebody has to disagree with Vines so that new players don't read his post, think he actually is all powerful and try to run 70% homes)

[Luc]

lol, have fun Dragons Mate ;)

[Zauper]

That's not a lot at all. 100 homes give you 800 additional peasants. That's such a sad addition to the population. Not a lot of ppl from high end KDs are going to reply to this thread 'cause they don't use homes since they run KD specific strats, which might make up for weaknesses here and there. But, if you are just talking about Utopian mechanics then those provinces are not well run. Just SOT any of the top provinces and see what kinda' BE they run. Most of the utopia can't be run like them. How many of us can run a 4k acre Orc w/ 89K def points and get away w/ it?

10% homes is .8 pop/acre, before other pop bonuses stack.

This equals a 3.2% increase to your population. Assuming you have say, 15% bonus from elsewhere, it becomes a 3.7% increase to your population. It also increases your BE. Great. The issue with people who say 'well, okay, but you can draft the entirety of that...' is that they are claiming a BE bonus, which they get, and a mil bonus, which they get, but not factoring for the ME penalty from raising your draft rate.

It's all relative, though. Provinces don't exist in static. Needs are fluid. There are situations where homes can be useful (outside of the BR bonus, even!). Largely it's going to depend on the interplay between your BE and other useful buildings (if you're getting homes for econ, that'd probably be banks/arms; if you're getting homes for military, it'd be tgs/forts).

Top kds tend to run less BE because optimizing your BE tends to be bad for your province. The optimal BE involves what -- a 40% draft? I'd like to see you run that and be competitive. The reality is that you could run 98k defense on 4k acres if you want. If you had a lot of offense and were aggressive about retalling, you could even make top kds regret trying to take your land. But your kingdom would have to play smart, which is hard... and why ghetto provs tend to run higher def.

[vines]

Yo where has this Zauper been? Homes allow one to have a much greater draft while still keeping BE at it's max. I can run a province with +90% army and still have a 100%rawBE. It you me it sounds that this Zauper guy is bitter about something. Looks like he ran into someone using my strategy and got rocked. I've been in so called ghetto where so called top kingdom warred us and one little province took out there whole kingdom. I look at these kingdom that call themselves the best and I laugh. It's just a joke really. If you ran only 98k def at home being 4k acres my province would have to show you the error of your ways.

[Zauper]

Yo where has this Zauper been? Homes allow one to have a much greater draft while still keeping BE at it's max. I can run a province with +90% army and still have a 100%rawBE. It you me it sounds that this Zauper guy is bitter about something. Looks like he ran into someone using my strategy and got rocked. I've been in so called ghetto where so called top kingdom warred us and one little province took out there whole kingdom. I look at these kingdom that call themselves the best and I laugh. It's just a joke really. If you ran only 98k def at home being 4k acres my province would have to show you the error of your ways.

I have been taking another break, of course.

Bitter about being rocked by homes? I think you're confused, vines.

Let me ask you this: If you have 100% BE on 30% of your land (because you have 70% homes, lol), and I have 80% BE on 100% of my land, who gets more out of their land?

Oh... that would be me? Shocking. How are you fitting GS, TGs, forts, farms, guilds, and towers in that 30% land, by the by? Oh, no GS? Interesting, you're already surrendering a substantial land advantage to me. I'll say it again, since you missed it: optimizing your province for BE is the opposite of an intelligent move. You optimize your province for power.

I can also run 90%+ of my population as army. Here's a hint: If I have 100k def on 4k acres, it probably means I have well over 600k off. (On a sidenote, that def number was made up from the guy I quoted, if you bothered to read. You didn't, but that's okay because everyone knows you're crazy).

But, you're right vines. We really should give this a shot in a real war, shouldn't we? PM me your loc and we can do it. I'm not even in a top kingdom but I'd be happy to demonstrate what happens when true SK players run into ghetto players.

[vines]

*shakes his head* You're making the same mistake others have made in the past. I'll tell you what I'll do. I'll make an account and I'll post my province's state up in this forum. The reason I'm going this is because you seem confident in your play style.

[Dragons Mate]

move to a new thread you two! This is an honest discussion, not a flame war!

[vines]

Dragons Mate, this thread wants to talk about homes and if they can really be used. So what I'm going do to is make a thread showing people I use high home strategy. Who better to show how to use the strategy than the guy who made the strategy. I haven't done this in a while. I think it time that I do it again. And once again people will know why the Vines-strategy aka high-homes is the best way to play.

[Palem]

I wish we still had a separate server so people could challenge vines and make him eat his words...oh the good 'ol days =']

[Lamersen11]

Vines is king of utopia. Show these noobs the way!

[gojete]

Vines you are a person with a big ego that hurts yourself. You should let go, why would you have the need to prove anything?
I myself try diffefrent strategies too. Ive found the use of homes as well, but thats just a little secret compared to other ones ive found, i also laugh at top kingdoms and play in a getto as a just elected monarch.
When we started the age, i told everyone how to do things properly and so on. but all they did was either ignore me or laugh.
There are persons who still believe that it takes WEEKS to have a super pimp province, my people you can achieve ubberness in no more than 7 days if you know what you are doing.

Now after a few weeks into the game when they see my results, i was elected monarch and got people thanking me for showing them how to play. And it is only the begining!

It is all about thinking out of the box isnt it? Most people wont dare to try anything new, because they find some sort of security in their old ways. And since it works so so, they just stick to it. I encourage everyone in my kingdom to try 100% homes, or 100% banks, or 50% libraries and 50% homes. Or whatever, GO EXTREME if you want to be any good, and dont let your kingdom mates make you mediocre.

This game has entirely changed since the code was re writen, when i left it was in the mehul times, now i read the formulas and other things and find that even though there are far better ways of playing a game, not even top players dare to try new things.

I laugh at the big kingdoms making utterly stupidly large "banks" . IF they only knew. But i am not one to tell, unlike Vines here.

Vines your superior intellect is nothing compared to what it could be if you drop down the ego and all those things.

I encourage you to stop thinking and giving up on your prejudices and all that blinds you, let go pride, will and everything else.Do not dwell in pleasure or superficial things like that.

And for the love of god , which you should also not believe in,a a matter of fact do not believe whatsoever AND PLEASE STOP FREAKING TELLING EVERYONE HOW TO PLAY!
Please delete your posts and let them dwell in ignorance.IT makes it easir for us who know the secrets of the game to help others think outside the normal standards.

Anyway if you want to make a new account and try new things,or show people how right you are, well you are more than welcome to join my guetto kd and feel at home to try what you wish, for this is my objective as monarch, to allow everyone try whatever they like and still destroy whoever dares hostile us .
i will send you an invite if you want, it would be very nice to play alongside a fellow free mind .Plus you will learn a thing or two .
Send me a message.

Best regards