An honest discussion about the use of Homes

[Palem]

Well there was two problems with that.

1. No runes.
2. 150k people dead via massacres.

[Luc]

you can MV chastity off you know.

And MV is significantly harder than Chastity to cast. Not to mention that you don't even get the right spells mv'ed most of the time. Chastity is too powerful compared to the cost and difficulty. The only reason I can see why anyone would keep it that way is because Gnomes are too crappy without it, and that's not a good reason at all imo.

[Ragnarok22788]

I wonder if there is some median value between 0% homes and optimal homes (with respect to 100% BE) that is better...

I see all of your arguments, and there is some truth to that. Maybe go into war with the optimal homes build and then use the incoming land to shift home percentages down since you can assume you will be losing peasants, but (hopefully) gaining land. This would give optimal stats at the start and then lead to a shift for war optimization.

Let's say we expect to have about 33% of our peasants during war vs normal. Use one-third the optimal number of homes

10% homes
10% farms
20% guilds + towers
10% stables + dungeons
10% banks
20% TG's
20% Forts

vs

0% homes
10% farms
20% guilds + towers
10% stables + dungeons
10% banks
25% TG's
25% Forts

Assume draft 65%

10% homes : 25.8 PPA, 16.77 Non-peasant, 9.03 peasant, 15.57 Jobs per acre, 79% BE
0% homes : 25 PPA, 16.25, 8.75 peasant, 16.67 jobs per acre, 76.3% BE

10% homes : 24.23 GCPA, 2 WPA + TPA, 14.77 MPA, +19.105 offense and defense
0% homes : 23.47 GCPA, 2 WPA + TPA, 14.25 MPA, +21.605 offense and defense

Assume we are Orc running 8 Dspec 2 Ospec and rest elites
0% homes has better defense with all military out @ 38.9 DPA
10% homes has 38.1 DPA
10% homes (2.77*5 Ospec +9*4 Elites+5.4 horses)*1.1905 = 65.78 OPA
0% homes (2.25*5 Ospec + 9*4 + 5.4)*1.21605 = 64.02 OPA
10% homes has 7.39 GC in maintenance
0% homes has 7.13 GC

10% homes NWPA: 55 building+9.03 peasant+6.75*4 EPA+8*4 Dspec+2.77*5*.8 OSpec + 8 WPA/TPA + 5.4*.6 horse = 146
0% homes NWPA: 143.65

10% homes: .4505 OPNW .261 DPNW
0% homes: .4457 OPNW .271 DPNW

Almost no difference. Maybe it's worth it for artisans, but I was mistaken about homes being clearly better.

[Dragons Mate]

10% homes (2.77*5 Ospec +9*4 Elites+5.4 horses)*1.1905 = 65.78 OPA
0% homes (2.25*5 Ospec + 9*4 + 5.4)*1.21605 = 64.02 OPA

I'm not dissing your home's build, because I think 10% homes is a reasonable percent if you insist on running homes during War. Still not convinced though. I just want to point out that an orc running 65 OPA is worthless. They are supposed to be heavy hitter IMO, and therefore have an easy 90 OPA, I'd like to see them with over 100.

[Ragnarok22788]

How does Artisan modify homes?

[Luc]

Don't see the point in running off specs with Orc. They fight with def spec strength in ambush, which means they're 4 instead of 2. It'll make almost no difference.

Artisan boosts the +population part of homes. You get 10 extra pop per home instead of 8.

[John Snowstorm]

This thread is super retarded.

http://forum.cheatengine.org/files/super-retard_190.jpg

[Danzig]

Artisan gives you 11.2 more pop instead of 8 with homes.

[Ragnarok22788]

Yea, 8 * 1.4 = 11.2

36.2 people per house is pretty sweet.

[Luc]

Oh right, artisan was "boosted" this age. Sorry.

[vines]

I don't need to prove any thing. I'm just trying to show player the best way to play. Now people say high-home players are solo players. That's the thing I made this strategy with team work in mind. My strategy works best with a whole kingdom using it. However, the problem is that most people do not use it this forces the players using my strategy to go it alone.

[DHaran]

vines your trolling lost credibility when you couldn't remain consistent in your punctuation and grammar, we know you aren't real. Whether it was from laziness, lack of focus, or simply handing the account off to a new troll, you are wasting your time.

[goodz]

homes are the only building that are going to allow you to explore faster if your exploring without aid. (increase total peasents) so umm thats a reason to run them

[goodz]

i dont mean to be rude, but what percent homes does an artisan have to run to pass a shepard running no homes? :P And there in lies the problem with artisan

[Ethan]

24.56% assuming otherwise identical pop mods. Though their various immunities and other benefits make this a mostly meaningless number - how many homes better/worse is 50% mass/raze/tornado vs. plague immune?
BTW, assuming they chose to run the same % homes, it takes 85.94% homes for art to have better pop. Just for the sake of having an even stupider single number in the discussion.


Edit - bad math. (Multiple partially counterbalancing errors)
Those values are:
Shep 0% homes - 22.32143% or 25/112 or 7*((5/4)^2)
Shep same% homes - 104.16667% or 25/24
Please don't ask why those fractions are that way...