2 Questions

[Bishop]

CountryStyle - 7% isn't a guaranteed win which is what you said earlier. Please don't claim that it is. Your chance to succeed sending 7% over with min sot inaccuracy is very high, but it is not 100%. It doesn't really matter if everyone in your kd has yet to fail (which is impossible for you to know what they sent btw) - the fact is that they can fail sending that offense. You need to stop claiming what you say is fact, when it is not.

[misashi]

You want to attack properly don't take risk

Always Sot/Som. Always send 20% thieves + 1.
Deduct from troops out shown on SOM always accurate, send 10 thieves will work.

Oversend by 8%. You will always have a tough battle appear so that means you did not oversend.



Ambush has no random factor, defense is at 80%, no modifiers.


@Country

How many attacks have you made this age?

[Bishop]

you dont need to do a 10 thief som, just send 20% of your tpa and you get the intel you need, without a SoT

i would also question that ambush has no randomness

[Dragons Mate]

just send 209% of your tpa

I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest Bishop meant 20%, but that's just me.

[Bishop]

i did, was a typo!

[misashi]

-.- SOM is to check army away.

[Bishop]

som gives all the info you need to hit in war. why waste stealth?

[Ordray]

It's harder to get an SoM and you lose a lot more thieves getting one than using 20% on a SoT and 20 on a SoM. If you're a hybrid with a nice TPA and a healthy amount of TDs then you're right, but some play A/M or pure attacker and can't afford to lost very many thieves than others can, especially when gaining acres during war.
And to tell you the truth, I've sent 4% over defense and have only failed once on TMs, but that was my fault entirely since I was using my numpad on my laptop and accidentally hit the enter button... 43/48 w/ 1 failed TM, 1 failed ambush, and the other 3 are conquests that don't count as wins.

[Bishop]

thieves lost is trivial though, as is the number of times you fail - sure, som isn't as easy as sot, but its hardly difficult. Considering you have more accurate intel than sot+ (10 thief)som it probably saves you cash in troop losses.

[misashi]

i don't know what u mean by saying i wouldn need to check his SOT.

[Ordray]

If you send 20% on SoM then you still get the +/-3% error on his home defense so you don't need a SoT+SoM, but when you're a pure attacker with 3 modded TPA it's significantly harder to get a SoM on an A/T who has 10 or so modded TPA, plus you have more losses, which is what I was trying to say. But, if you have a gnome who can spare the 2% stealth then just get him/her to get you a SoM with 20 thieves and you're good.

[dingy]

Checking SoT + SoM is preferred in all cases, IMO. You can check SoM-only all day long, but there's a lot you miss - you won't spot rune dumpsites, who's been inactive and letting their gold pile up.... Maybe if you don't do any resource control with your thieves, it's a different story, but SoT is highly valuable. Also SoM fails more often. Those 20% thieves on SoM that you lose DO start to add up.

[Ordray]

Indeed, my thief losses for a failed SoM were around 1-2% of my total thieves.

[Ethan]

Also, you can recheck SoT for lower stealth than straight SoM. If it's at the edge, and you want 3 tries - 3 SoM is 9% stealth, 3 SoT + 1 SoM is only 6%. (Right? Or is my stealth info out of date?)

Admittedly, you can SoM at 20%, then SoT at 20% to see if that drops the target def - so whether you start with 20% SoM or 10 thief SoM doesn't matter for this reason. But if you want to retry intel to lower the need def to guarantee a hit, you should probably use SoTs.

In theory the variance on the SoM is lower than that on the SoT, but there are some good "tricks" that counterbalance this partially and a proper SoT+SoM calc should be fractions of a % more at most than a SoM (with the same inaccuracy).


Is people's objection to the 7% number that it actually takes 7.26% oversend over SoT (or SoT+SoM) to be 100% sure (excluding king mishaps)? Or is there some other error people are claiming in the method? I've had no problems, though I grant that alone isn't proof.
Why aren't we listing it as 2 parts - the 3.1% error in the SoT (that a gnome can eliminate, or multiple tries reduce) and the 4.04% required for a hit?


Re: ambush - remember the bug where def spec value is used for off specs defending ambush. So dwarf is still only 5, human gets a 6 (on the rare occasion they have off specs), and orcs keep sucking at only 4. Anyone know how TW interacts with this?

[Palem]

Pezzies die but they don't contribute to def afaik