We need a guide/manual that describes game mechanics.

[Yadda9To5]

Trying to figure out a kd strat this age has been a horrible experience for me. For example

• How many provinces would it take to NS x% of a targets army? Unknown as no where in the wiki numbers related to NS are posted
• How many to NM then, well, the wiki says 1.5% per cast, sadly when experimenting we only get to 0.7% per cast

In both cases it would also be great to know what tpa/wpa ratios (opper vs target) are needed to have a reasonable success rate. This info can't be found for any spell or op.

During this age, it became obvious SoS and Survey are simply 100% accurate, but troop numbers in SoT are not guaranteed to be within 3% of the orgdinal values, even when sending 20% thieves.

Mostly, I enjoy this game, but the inconclusive and often lacking information on game mechanics in a strategy game frustrates me to no end.

I half understand the original reason for these oblique mechanics, players have to find out themselves, that was cool in the Mehul days where you were playing against equally uniformed players. But nowadays, with half the kds existing of old-school players that gather all these tiny bits of info, and genesis non existent to test for yourself, it can't seriously be thought to be good to have kingdoms first play an age to experiment (this age would suck), get the formulas the game uses and then play another age using a strat build on he newly discovered mechanics?!

[Bishop]

Whats stopping you?

http://wiki.utopia-game.com/index.ph...he_Utopia_Wiki

[Yadda9To5]

Whats stopping you?

http://wiki.utopia-game.com/index.ph...he_Utopia_Wiki

Ehrm, maybe the fact that I don't HAVE these formulas? But if this is an offer to get me access to Uto's code base so I can write a proper guide, I'll gladly do it. Edit: Though I'd think that most formulas are quite generic, just some variables that change per op/spell/attack. So wouldn't it even be a greater idea if a dev wrote the guide instead? Experience tells me never to say "it would be done very fast", but honestly it can't be that hard, not harder than all the changes of this age ;)

[Bishop]

Go spade it and discuss it on the relevant page - there is nothing stopping you.

[DHaran]

Everything has always been researched and discovered by players, doubt they'd ever release all the formulas, would ruin the mystery!

[Bishop]

btw, to answer your question.

You get .7 on NM because you aren't in optimal nw range

NS info
http://wiki.utopia-game.com/index.php/Thievery_Formulas

[Yadda9To5]

btw, to answer your question.

You get .7 on NM because you aren't in optimal nw range

NS info
http://wiki.utopia-game.com/index.php/Thievery_Formulas

Thanks! For NS, only the soldier percentage is given, I'm more interested in specs percentage (0,4%from my tiny tests) and elites percentage (0.15%). Can one assume that nw affects spells the same as it does thievery ops: effect = effect * nw percentage?

Edit: NS at http://wiki.utopia-game.com/index.ph...y#Night_Strike gives 13%, http://wiki.utopia-game.com/index.php/Thievery_Formulas gives 18% while at war only 16%, would that mean that out of war you strike 18-13 = 5% specs/elites and in war 3%?!. Also what is the gains, NS gives no gains. I'm sorry, but i can make head nor tails from this info. I can guess what seems reasonable, but there really is no concrete info.

[Bishop]

i don't think it does actually.

Back in the day we used to test stuff out a lot, people seem to have stopped doing that though. I would have no problem is assisting in some data spading.

[Yadda9To5]

Can't you bug te devs? Even if it is for some general pointers as in how nw affect magic and how wpa/tpa ratios work. You got that nice exploration cost formula this age :)

[Yadda9To5]

(Originally a reply to another topic, then to bugs where it was declared not a bug. I'm sure at the very least it is a suggestion.)

Massacre isn't bugged though - you just dont like it.
What are you confused on? The developers arent going to explain every nuance of the game, thats up to us to work out . Both links you sent say the same thing btw.

Both links (intentionally!) lead people to believe Massacres are affected by nw in the same way as TM; There are two things wrong with that:

1) In war TM is only affected by nw up until a ~25% of max (3 = 25% if the base is 12) cap. In the guide the upper cap is mentioned, the lower cap is left out, and looking at some posts in strategy plenty people assume that in war attacks largely out of nw range take no land at all.
2) Massacres is definately not capped at only 25% of their base gains. Once again the guide leads you to belief they are not capped at all; taking into account the TM knowledge they might be capped at 25%; In reality they are capped at some other level.

Now this lack of information is a bit more than a nuance to me. Kingdoms that know how these mechanics work can make a lot better use of their provinces in war than those that don't. Isn't that a bit strange, this way of creating have (knowledge) and have-not kds?!

[Bishop]

But massacre is affected by networth. That is a true statement. I dont go into detail about it because i do not have all the detail.

[Yadda9To5]

But massacre is affected by networth. That is a true statement. I dont go into detail about it because i do not have all the detail.

That I understand. It's not that I expect you to write a guide. I expect the devs to to it, or at least have them provide the information in a rough way (sourcecode parts? I know that could be tricky, yet at the same time it's not exactly a formula for a cure for cancer so some basic nda would do) to someone that will make a guide out of it.

[Bishop]

If it is information we cannot get ourselves then i would agree, they should provide it. IF we can get it though then we should.