Thieve's Dens

[Kilrogg]

Thieves' Dens has this characteristics;

Lower Losses in Thievery Operations
Percentage Base Effect = 4% with max at 100%

Bonus to TPA
Percentage Base Effect = 3% with max at 75%

For a rogue, with twice effectiveness, in other words saying building more than 25% is ummm useless...?

[Palem]

Spending more than 25% on TD would be counterproductive and result in a lesser bonus because of DBE.

[Hooah]

that goes for any almost every building if im not mistaken

put in a better way (imo): rather than needing 10% TD to get 36% lower losses and 27% bonus to TPA you only require ~5%, freeing up space for other buildings for you.

[Palem]

Technically not.

From a maximization position, yes.

[UtoTerrick]

Can you explain a little more in detail!

[Palem]

%'age based buildings' bonuses max out at 50% but those bonuses aren't linear due to DBE, so the more % you dedicate to the building, the smaller bonus you recieve per extra %.

However, if you want to get the most out of your prov, you want to receive as much of a bonus from your buildings as possible so running anything above 25% is usually a mistake unless it's for a good purpose like a protection build or pumping.

[UtoTerrick]

So the more land you dedicate to a building the less effective each individual percent becomes....

[Kilrogg]

So the more land you dedicate to a building the less effective each individual percent becomes....

if you pass the max benefit. Which for normal building is 50%, and Rogue's TD is 25%.

Palem, what do you mean by "Technically not." ? Elaborate please. <== oh you did. My bad.

My war strat gonna be this (initially)
Halfling Rogue
TG 40%
Forts 20%
Guilds 10%
TD 30%

Now maybe I should -5% from TD and add to Guild or get a 5% farm so I don't need to waste much plundering/rob foods.

[Hanoumatoi]

%'age based buildings' bonuses max out at 50% but those bonuses aren't linear due to DBE, so the more % you dedicate to the building, the smaller bonus you recieve per extra %.

However, if you want to get the most out of your prov, you want to receive as much of a bonus from your buildings as possible so running anything above 25% is usually a mistake unless it's for a good purpose like a protection build or pumping.

I think the confusion here is that he's asking about as a rogue. Thus he's asking if since rogue TDs are doubled, 25% is the hard cap on benefit for a rogue, or if it's still 50% (which would be strange).

[kilava]

50% (or 25% if twice effective) is the cap for the bonuses if you have 100% BE, you wouldn't max out if you had under 100% BE. (Capacity buildings and libraries aren't affected by BE)

The main reason for having over 20% of a building is that you are in protection or pumping something or that you get a few extra % before a war so when you start trading acres your % is still at a good level (usually TG).

As a Halfling you pay 250 gc per thief and since the main reason for TD is the lower losses of thieves (extra thievery efficiency is always nice) you don't need to max out TD. In my opinion 15-20% before a war is enough.

[Palem]

So the more land you dedicate to a building the less effective each individual percent becomes....

Yes. This is the Building effects formula:
Percentage Based Buildings = Base Effect * BE * % of building * (100% - % of building)

The part I've underlined is the DBE multiplier and because of this, you receive less of a bonus from the more % you put into a building. For instance, Consider TG's on 100% BE.

At 1% TG, you will receive a 1.4775% OME bonus.
At 5% TG you will receive a 7.125% OME bonus.

7.125/1.4775 < 5. These effects get larger at larger %'s, but even at 1% and 5% it's still noticeable.

Edit: For the record, this is strictly for %'s based buildings.

[Hanoumatoi]

Given that formula, there's no benefit from building past 25%, regardless of your BE, and in fact going past 25% would cause you to decrease in overall effect from the building...

[Palem]

Yea, that's why it's the max bonus, which I've already said...

[Hanoumatoi]

%'age based buildings' bonuses max out at 50% but those bonuses aren't linear due to DBE, so the more % you dedicate to the building, the smaller bonus you recieve per extra %.

However, if you want to get the most out of your prov, you want to receive as much of a bonus from your buildings as possible so running anything above 25% is usually a mistake unless it's for a good purpose like a protection build or pumping.

You said that, which in the context of this thread I took to mean that 25% wasn't the max for a Rogue with TD.

[Palem]

My first post says that anything over 25% would be counterproductive ;p