~ 31% Undead ~ Who would have thought :)

[Dragons Mate]

hallo, the whole point of chaining is to try to keep the chained people from attacking by killing their offense! If you allow them to do that, you are just making it easier for them to win! If you keep fighting, and quad tap people for enough acres, you'll survive and eventually you'll stop dropping in land (because you'll have enough incoming to counter the losses).

Yes, the whole kingdom can hit you with 1 gen and a few thousand troops, but that's all right. it might be enough to stop them from double tapping somebody else!

[Lestat]

^^ So that is a situation you may want to avoid

[Dragons Mate]

haha, yes it is! not pleasant being in that situation...

[Lestat]

I mean't the halfer KD but that too hahaha

[Hallo]

It usually doesn't really matter when people decide to hit the chained... and the offense is usually so small that they could MAKE their "double" and double you. When it isn't that small the chain is either making too small hits to care about, or wasn't effectively chained to begin with.


Really, I think you're relying WAY TOO MUCH on people just leaving you alone. Ignoring you because you've been chained, instead of continuing to treat you as a threat. I've heard many people complain about "deep chaining" or messing with the chained, but in the end I simply get the idea that people don't like rebuilding their provs and hence discourage the practice.

I mean, unless you keep decent TPA they'll either NS your def or kidnap you... hell fireballs + chastity can damn near PK a chained prov... and don't go relying on NW difference to change the fact that you have less than 1 TPA (or less if you grow). Even the A/M's can beat that.

In the end, the amount of "effort" they need to direct at you is much MUCH smaller than people keep insisting it is. And if you want to keep every elite possible, well... you're going to be pushed down, not "float" or even make gains.

[silent_killer]

this thread is about the undead nothing to do with chaining

[kbone]

This thread just got kicked up a whole notch!

Hallo and Vlam, the situations you described could happen to any race. It would be unfortunate if any race lost 1/3 of their elites. But the point is its all relative. If a chained province were forced to gegrow in the absence of aid then the undead would be no worse off than any other race. Its average power would actually be greater than normal for some time as the ratio of specs/elites came down to normal. Granted it could not be aided up as easily since it cannot directly train elites, but this is the only problem I see

[vlaM]

"Hallo and Vlam, the situations you described could happen to any race. It would be unfortunate if any race lost 1/3 of their elites."

true. but its real easy to retrain elites.

[hint]

Read like 5 posts last page about NSing leets. I thought leet losses in NS have always been just marginal.

[Pestermenot]

They are, unless there are few ospecs and dspecs, then it increases.

[Maximouse]

I am one of those people who will play undead partly due to nostalgic reasons. I dont expect many in the top to run undeads due to the fact that you cant keep decent epa when whoring so other races will be stronger especialy from midage onwards.

But an undead rogue in a warring KD not bothered much with size can get a very nice leets/specs ratio for their offence. Especialy when they know how to whore a bit between wars and get landdrops from suiciding into top KD's.
That combined with the "free" acres undead has to spend and the economy which will be strong with only specs to buy and thieves (at 500 gc) and no deaths on offence, undead makes enough money to counter their sience drawback by a fair bit. Not to mention they can run a very nice TPA once they get their epa rate up a bit, so their only real problem will be a halfer perhaps. Massacres against the few halvers in the average opponent KD solve that problem aswell probably.

So to summarise: Undead can be really strong, but it needs activety and some knowhow of the game. And probably only in warring KD's. In a whoring KD it wont be much use...

[vlaM]

"undead makes enough money to counter their sience drawback by a fair bit."

they really don't. 80% effectiveness is quite painful.

[E_Boko]

"undead makes enough money to counter their sience drawback by a fair bit."

they really don't. 80% effectiveness is quite painful.

Which requires between 14-15% libs to counter.

[Ordray]

Which is less room than is freed up by the lack of need for farms.

[Maximouse]

And combine the extra room you have with the fact that your most expensive unit all age will be a 500 gc thief and no offencive losses, and you will have enough income to run a nice sience rate all age round. Ofcourse undeads wont be top race for sience, but the drawback can be overcome quite easily.