The effect of dens for a rogue

[Yadda9To5]

There has been some discussion on the effect of dens on rogues. For background information read http://forums.joltonline.com/showthr...-not-100/page3 and http://forums.joltonline.com/showthr...-dropped/page5. Note that the 95% resp 75% cap are still in place

I suddenly realized I didn't need to build dens to check this out, the 1% more land build value does enough. Now just hope the Building advisor is correct.

My building advisor (a rogue):
Building Efficiency 100.0%
Thieves' Dens 0 0.0%
higher thievery effectiveness (5.94%) (When 1 additional percentage build)
lower losses in thievery operations (7.92%) (When 1 additional percentage build)

So, now let's calculate the effect of an additional percentage:

Doubling effect: (0.01 - 0.01^2) * 2
effectiveness: 5.94% (3 * (0.01 - 0.01^2) * 2)
losses: 7.92% (4 * (0.01 - 0.01^2) * 2)

Doubling land percentage: (0.02 - 0.02^2)
effectiveness: 5.88% (3 * (0.02 - 0.02^2))
losses: 7.84% (4 * (0.02 - 0.02^2))

So, when assuming the building advisor is correct (and it should), the effect of dens are doubled, not the the virtual percentage of acres, thus not "dens act like you build 2 times that many"

Bishop, Palem, Thundergore or devs can we get a confirmation that the building advisor is correct and the rogue bonus (and merchant bonus) really doubles the effect?

[apollo]

Yadda, do you by chance know where the post is where Bishop stated how these work the first time?

[Yadda9To5]

Yadda, do you by chance know where the post is where Bishop stated how these work the first time?

Somewhere in one of the age 50 topics something like "Dens act like you have 2 times as many" was said. Which lead to my confusion, and looking at the topics mentioned that of many others, as I thought the percentage of buildings would be doubled, not the resulting effect.

[Bishop]

i believe it is something along the lines of "the game calcs as if you had twice the amount"

[Freeway]

BE 100%

Thieves' Dens 9.5%

51.81% higher thievery effectiveness (4.79%)
69.07% lower losses in thievery operations (6.39%)

[Sonjira]

Bummer. I picked Sage over Rogue because I was told that the Rogue TD bonus is calculated before the diminishing building effectiveness. Therefore, I thought 20% TDs for a Rogue would be equivalent to 60% of 40 = 24% TDs. From the numbers in this thread, it appears that 20% TDs for a Rogue are actually 2 * (80% of 20) = 32% TDs.

Ouch!

[Ragnarok22788]

Actually, 15% TD's grants the max value.

[Hanoumatoi]

Bummer. I picked Sage over Rogue because I was told that the Rogue TD bonus is calculated before the diminishing building effectiveness. Therefore, I thought 20% TDs for a Rogue would be equivalent to 60% of 40 = 24% TDs. From the numbers in this thread, it appears that 20% TDs for a Rogue are actually 2 * (80% of 20) = 32% TDs.

Ouch!

*confused* 60% of 40 would give 24 times the base modifier which would be nearly the cap (or over the cap for losses)

Also, a friend of mine had 14.4% TD when I talked to him about this, and he had 74.4% Thief Effect and -95% Thief Losses, so this is definitely confirmed.

[Palem]

The survey shouldn't account for your personality though...

[Bijo]

Actually, 15% TD's grants the max value.

Actually its a bit lower then that

50-sqrt(1312.5) = 13.771558134526403565703339607076
50-sqrt(1250) = 14.644660940672623779957781894758

losses capped at 13.78%
The thief effectiveness is capped at 14.65%

[Fenleone]

The survey shouldn't account for your personality though...

Ya I know Palem that one threw me for a loop as well but apparently the double effects of buildings for Rogue and Merchant are appearing on the Survey page none the less. (The percentage effects that is, no clue if the direct income from banks is doubled or not)

[Hanoumatoi]

Actually its a bit lower then that

50-sqrt(1312.5) = 13.771558134526403565703339607076
50-sqrt(1250) = 14.644660940672623779957781894758

losses capped at 13.78%
The thief effectiveness is capped at 14.65%

Heh, you people and your large numbers! I used the fractions so it was .5-(sqrt(2)/4)! (I didn't think to calculate the cap on losses)

[Hanoumatoi]

The survey shouldn't account for your personality though...

Bishop talked to the devs about it after several posts in the "bug" forums, and it appears they went ahead and changed it. Good change, IMO. Especially since it showed us clearly that the "Double the effect" model was correct, rather than the "calculate as if you had twice as many" model.
Just wish I'd known about that BEFORE the age began =(

[Palem]

Then they need to change the Survey because it still says it doesn't account for race/pers

[Fenleone]

I don't even know if they included all race/pers effects on buildings Palem I just know that they have for the %effects of Banks and TD for Merch and Rogue respectively. Does the Mystic double effect on guilds show up with regards to number of wiz per day now (didn't in past ages) and I'm not sure about the direct income from banks either?