Chasity OVERPOWERED

[Bishop]

MV is only of academic importance, because in practice it's impossible to keep mv'ing provs that get chastity 4-5 times a day. It costs way too much in both mana and runes to be an option in the actual game.

Also, stopping someone's population from growing is ALWAYS a good thing, even if they aren't really that short on peasants at the moment. Chastity is just way too cheap and easy for what it does, especially when mv'ing it is a non-option for anyone with a working brain.

People pulling the MV card is getting really tiring right about now.

If removing chastity is so vital to your prov then getting it MVed is hardly academic. Rune cost is negligible, you dont ask someone with fail wpa to mv you unless you enjoy wasting runes and mana. You ask someone that is unlikely to fail and you supply them with the runes.

Stopping pop from growing when someone is 95% popped isn't as awesome as stopping someone you just FBed. You arent going to ask for an MV if you are popped with chastity on now are you?

The MV card trumps you.

[Scavenger]

I agree with Bishop for the most part, but must point out that MV is more costly than is portraited, cause targetted prov also has to recast selfspells and MV doesn't clear chastity in one go pers? even if you succeed.

[Luc]

If removing chastity is so vital to your prov then getting it MVed is hardly academic. Rune cost is negligible, you dont ask someone with fail wpa to mv you unless you enjoy wasting runes and mana. You ask someone that is unlikely to fail and you supply them with the runes.

Who says that someone who is unlikely to fail exists and is there exactly when I need him/her? And MV is still a hard spell that even such people fail with, not to mention that it's not guaranteed to ever remove chastity at all. There's also the alternative cost to consider, namely that the mana they're using on you can't be used on doing damage to your opponent instead.

The measure of if something is overpowered is how much work it takes to do it compared to how much it takes to counter it. Are you saying that's it's as easy mv'ing chastity on 10 provs 4 times a day as it is to cast chastity on those same provs?

Stopping pop from growing when someone is 95% popped isn't as awesome as stopping someone you just FBed. You arent going to ask for an MV if you are popped with chastity on now are you?

I never ask for mv's to chastity, because they're a waste. MV is hard to cast, expensive, fails to remove the spell you're targetting fairly often, and also removes other spells that I will have to recast. It's unreasonable for it to be that hard to counter something that's extremely easy and cheap to cast.

Also, even if they're 95% pop'ed when I cast it, they'll only remain at that level if they don't grow at all. Casting chastity on someone you're letting grow is a great way of building land farms for yourself with very little cost.

The MV card trumps you.

The MV card is played only by people who don't war a lot, or who are warring people who don't use chastity. Their ideas about MV are 100% irrelevant, because they think it's somehow a good option, and so they're obviously living in a dream. MV is a terrible argument against chastity, anyone who has tried it knows that. That you haven't run into issues with chastity yourself doesn't mean the problem doesn't exist.

As you know, I'm a faery t/m this age, so i'm not actually the target of chastity, but I still think it's a ridiculous spell.



In short: Chastity is overpowered because the effort it takes to counter it's rather powerful effects are unreasonably high compared to the costs of casting it.

[Bishop]

As you also know i ran a human and now run a faery, both sides ftw!

Lets look here though - "The measure of if something is overpowered is how much work it takes to do it compared to how much it takes to counter it. Are you saying that's it's as easy mv'ing chastity on 10 provs 4 times a day as it is to cast chastity on those same provs?"

If all you are doing is casting chastity then gz, you fail! Chastity needs to be combined with serious underpop for it to be a killer - which takes work. You may get some other spells mved, but if you are that underpopped only one spell counts - l+p.

"In short: Chastity is overpowered because the effort it takes to counter it's rather powerful effects are unreasonably high compared to the costs of casting it. "
Chastity may be too easily spammed but its hardly a spell that nails a prov by itself and as such is not as powerful in its own right.

[Luc]

It doesn't have to be the spell that ends all provs to be overpowered, it just needs to have an effect that isn't proportional to it's cost and difficulty. You don't have to seriously depop someone for chastity to hurt. It sucks to not have any peasant growth. Chastity is great for keeping people under control while you're waiting to free up resources to do depop, or simply chaining someone to hell. With no peasant growth you're not gonna do anything good with any land you might be gaining.

For the record, l&p for a properly depop'ed prov is like polishing a turd. Only way you get out of it without it taking weeks is if you get aid or if you can kidnap.

[Bishop]

I disagree, you do need to depop a prov for chastity to hurt, otherwise a few simple kidnaps will keep you all popped up + gains from trads. You need, I feel, to look more at the effort required to take a prov to a situation where having chastity cast on it is the final nail in the coffin - its quite an expenditure of effort at that stage. I dont think i've said this earlier but i agree chastity needs a rune increase btw.

FYI, turds can be polished -http://dsc.discovery.com/videos/mythbusters-polishing-a-turd.html. If you are underpopped though you will have l+p cast and thats about it - even if it sucks.

[Palem]

See, I personally don't feel chastity is op. It takes a fair bit of work before casting it is actually worthwhile, the duration is short and you do have some options to negate it if you really want to.

I have to disagree with you there. I don't think it's function is OP, but it's rune cost is dirt cheap (for the record it's about .84 runes/acre. FB costs about 1.8 runes/acre). Even if you don't have a good wpa, don't worry about it, just spam it for 6 or 7 tries and it will go through eventually. You can't do that with the other powerhouse spells (or at least you shouldn't) and there's a reason for that.

[Bishop]

I dont think i've said this earlier but i agree chastity needs a rune increase btw.

^^ post above yours

<-- ftw

[Palem]

Bishop, you know as well as anyone I don't actually read anything you post lol

[Luc]

^^ post above yours

<-- ftw

And earlier you also said that the rune cost for MV is negligible. So raising the rune cost for a spell that costs less than negligible matters how exactly?

And again, having no pop growth because of a simple ass spell is no fun. If you have to rely on kidnappings and peasant gains from tm's to grow your population, you've clearly been affected.

[Bishop]

And earlier you also said that the rune cost for MV is negligible. So raising the rune cost for a spell that costs less than negligible matters how exactly?

And again, having no pop growth because of a simple ass spell is no fun. If you have to rely on kidnappings and peasant gains from tm's to grow your population, you've clearly been affected.

Negligible cos you dont spam MV obviously - stop being obtuse Luc :p

"And again, having no pop growth because of a simple ass spell is no fun" <-- being "affected" isnt the same as it being overpowered, which is the point of this entire thread

[DHaran]

Nothing changes. Not rune costs, nothing... or you will do the hardest ticks there is. No more protection from the mods. I'll pull you out of that one-kingdom Hilton and cast you down with the Absalomites. You'll think you've been chained by a train! And the forums? Gone... sealed off, thread-by-thread. We'll have us a little poster barbecue in the yard. They'll see the flames for thousands of acres. We'll dance around it like wild Injuns! You understand me? Catching my drift?... Or am I being obtuse?

[titanwraith]

Chastity is just a storms that can't be stopped by NB...

[Palem]

+1 for Shawshank references =]

[DjTeddySpin]

With all due effing respects...

All the things you try to argue can be countered 2-3 pages back. I am so tired of repeating the same point to the same people who are supposed to be making things better for the game... Yes you know I am referring to you.

You had to bring the issue down to the point of fighting over vocabulary and phrasing methods when you know well it's contents and expressions, driving the focus away from the main argument that you lost. Repeatedly give ridiculous replies and suggestions that have been rebutted pages ago.

It makes me question what your purpose in the forums is? So you can make a point(for the sake of it), or to do your job?