UD Tactician vs UD Rogue and Faery Rogue vs Hafling Mystic

[Tuckmylife]

So I wanna ask, is UD tactician better or rogue?

I wanna ask can UD rogues steal like how Faeries rogues and Hafling rogues steal? Like I will expect to steal 200-500k gold every 50% stealth spent.

What makes UD tactician > UD rogue? And what makes UD rogue > UD tactician?
What if I am only playing in a ghetto? What is a more 'dog eat dog world' build?

Again, Halfling mystic vs Faery rogue.

Question is, can Halfling mystic steals like how Faery rogue steals? Like I will expect the failing rate for robbing the vault is 10%.

I have experience UD tactician and Faery Rogue before. Faery rogue works pretty well with ToG + stealing gold, therefore I am rich most of the time and getting a lot of sense of achievement and satisfaction.

UD tactician it's just so so. I like UD as a race more but I don't know what personality makes a race imba. Like I think every race has its own "imbalanceness", but it depends how much do you enjoy them. Like do you really enjoy being able to make attack every 9 hours? (Tactician with barracks), or do you enjoy stealing gold and tog and be rich and fund dragon in an hour? (Faery rogue) or etc etc. Everyone has their own ways to gain pleasure.

And do you lose lesser thieves when you fail an ops for undead rogue?

Thanks ciao. Happy new year.

[Bo To]

Faery cant fund dragon in an hour. It cant in 24 hours or 7 days. Dragon cost is millions and tog is good only if you have a lot of peasants which you don't. Most t/ms play with 3-5 ppa and that's not much for tog. Being rich in this game means being target. You have to spend the gold for sci and then again - being target for that...

Nothing can steal like faery because the racial bonus but that doesn't mean you cant steal at all. With 5-6 tpa and 10-15% td stealing is fine.

With und/r you can steal "like faery" if you have 5-6 tpa and 10-15% tds, just like every other race. I dont see why you should build barax on und/t when you can make guilds and towers and spam spells...

About thieves loses: its random but depends on how much you sent. With 10% td at 67% BE, when I send 1k I lose 10-35.

[StratOcastle]

Undead tac is theoretically a good kingdom strat because you are efficient in the vacuum you function and theoretically can be sent aid to sustain.

In the real world most tacs don't use their stealth. I'm not referring to the posh world of kingdoms that have the luxury of kicking out duds. Often in the ghetto it's you alone online and from this perspective there's nothing wrong with undead rogue. You will seldomly be able to pull off the spectacular work of faery or halfer. Basically all you're doing is buying back your independence, but that's pretty important.

[khronosschoty]

Undead tac is theoretically a good kingdom strat because you are efficient in the vacuum you function and theoretically can be sent aid to sustain.

In the real world most tacs don't use their stealth. I'm not referring to the posh world of kingdoms that have the luxury of kicking out duds. Often in the ghetto it's you alone online and from this perspective there's nothing wrong with undead rogue. You will seldomly be able to pull off the spectacular work of faery or halfer. Basically all you're doing is buying back your independence, but that's pretty important.

Could be, true!

[noobium]

Faery cant fund dragon in an hour. It cant in 24 hours or 7 days. Dragon cost is millions and tog is good only if you have a lot of peasants which you don't. Most t/ms play with 3-5 ppa and that's not much for tog. Being rich in this game means being target. You have to spend the gold for sci and then again - being target for that...

If you can get peasants on a Faery and they're big enough relative to the kingdom, it's entirely possible to solofund a drake in 24-48 hours. Given that attackers tend to have little in the way of gc generation in war, it usually falls on t/ms to fund in longer wars.

[StratOcastle]

Could be, true!

Well the tac part is true. If people ever wonder why I might take a suboptimal build like elf tac is because where I go it's a need combination. Attacking, intel, blanket support...

The lower tier is where these builds have teeth. This is why I speculate the salvage value of undead rogue.

[noobium]

Short answer to OP's question:

Tactician is better for about 95% of kingdoms, and Rogue is terrible as a solitary province.
Warrior is arguably better than Tactician if you don't care about CS, but Tactician is more versatile (as much as Undead can be called versatile, anyway).
Don't play Merchant on Undead, it's terrible.

Since I'm guessing the OP is talking about solitary provinces - just pick Tactician and don't touch UD/Rogue with a ten foot pole.

[UtopiaExpert]

In ghetto warring Undead is probably the strongest race, and UD/tactician the strongest comb, simply because even if you run a rainbow-strat, you'll still have offense and attack times, some rudimentary thievery defense and can get your own intel. If you play in a more organized KD, leave UD behind and run a real attacking race such as Orc.

[noobium]

if i want to fight ghetto wars just roll orc core with elf/mystic t/m support.

if i want an easy solo province in ghettoland roll elf/mystic and laugh at how bad ghettos are at handling elves.

undeads in ghettoland are fine as a minority pick alongside orc or dwarf/cleric (and if i wanted to teach a ghetto the importance of playing the game out of war, i'd roll dwarf/clerics instead).

human, halfling, faery, and avian just don't offer anything to a disorganized ghetto, so stay away, especially from human and avian. faeries probably have the best case for being useful, but ghetto t/ms slack too much and can't coordinate ops in a useful manner, while halfling turns into a liability without a kingdom to support them.

[neanderthal]

In ghetto warring Undead is probably the strongest race, and UD/tactician the strongest comb, simply because even if you run a rainbow-strat, you'll still have offense and attack times, some rudimentary thievery defense and can get your own intel. If you play in a more organized KD, leave UD behind and run a real attacking race such as Orc.

Have you guys ever even finished in the T5?

[noobium]

Have you guys ever even finished in the T5?

Technically I did with hordez, but that age was borked so badly due to the stench that is SWEA.

Then of course last age I was in the top honor kingdom, for what that is worth...

[UtopiaExpert]

Have you guys ever even finished in the T5?

Yes we did.

But not for a long time. Spartans went into a big decline, building up now and getting stronger every age. We finished #20 in everything last age and #8 warring, not bad considering we had to use about 35 players during that age. We just had some troubles again, but next age we'll be fine. I think right now there are only 6-7 people left of those that were there last year around this time. During the last 12 months we went through 70 perhaps 80 players to finally get what we were looking for.

[Tuckmylife]

Happy New Year Guys!

I like what StratOcastle said, which is being a rogue you can buy back your independence. That's important, especially if you are from a third world.

Anyway, I am doing okay but I really like Tactician's attack time and I think so far I have regretted being an Undead Rogue. It's not that UD rogue is bad, just that I think the pleasure I get from multiple attacks are way more than the pleasure I got from robbing an inactive.

I think next age I will probably make an Undead/Tactician or Warrior but I like the attack time, so maybe stick to tactician.

One thing I like about being Undead is you don't have to train any elites. Which means after 60%-70% draft rate you can demolish your armories and do something else.
But other races have to keep armories for a long time if you wanna pump full elites. And staying in Fortified is a must if you wanna pump elites.

But there's no real need for Undead to get into fortification, in my opinion. Especially you are playing in a Ghetto that you monarch only online once every 36 hours.

Anyway, I like Undead. So far so good. Thanks for your opinions. End of the day I think I am still doing some trial and errors and testing which build and personality suit the best for me.

In my opinion, my undead rogue doesn't steal like Faery rogues and Halflings. I would say it depends on the target's TPA. But when I was playing Faery Rogues and Halfling rogues, the feeling of robbing vaults is just different. The success rate is just way better compared to my UD rogue. My conclusion is, end of the day the race you choose makes a big impact on the goal you wanted to achieve.

[Nightmare_]

So I wanna ask, is UD tactician better or rogue?

I wanna ask can UD rogues steal like how Faeries rogues and Hafling rogues steal? Like I will expect to steal 200-500k gold every 50% stealth spent.

What makes UD tactician > UD rogue? And what makes UD rogue > UD tactician?
What if I am only playing in a ghetto? What is a more 'dog eat dog world' build?

Again, Halfling mystic vs Faery rogue.

Question is, can Halfling mystic steals like how Faery rogue steals? Like I will expect the failing rate for robbing the vault is 10%.

I have experience UD tactician and Faery Rogue before. Faery rogue works pretty well with ToG + stealing gold, therefore I am rich most of the time and getting a lot of sense of achievement and satisfaction.

UD tactician it's just so so. I like UD as a race more but I don't know what personality makes a race imba. Like I think every race has its own "imbalanceness", but it depends how much do you enjoy them. Like do you really enjoy being able to make attack every 9 hours? (Tactician with barracks), or do you enjoy stealing gold and tog and be rich and fund dragon in an hour? (Faery rogue) or etc etc. Everyone has their own ways to gain pleasure.

And do you lose lesser thieves when you fail an ops for undead rogue?

Thanks ciao. Happy new year.

1. Ud/tact objectively > ud/rogue
2. Yes, they can steal like faes/halfers can if you pump your crime sci and run similar TD. Not identical since you don't have +damage or +stealth base like they do and don't run as high of tpa, but somewhat comparable if you pick your targets right. You'll never be able to steal from other rogues
3. Ud and tact go hand in hand if you can deal with base 10.24h attack times in war. CS + WT and 100% accurate intel compliments no thief ops and/or lower tpa.
Undead rogue is better because it can run thief ops. It's a singular yet interesting enough advantage to consider
4. In a ghetto, either is fine. Undead/tact is easymode but you may get bored. Undead/rogue is more fun, least for me. Run 3.5-4 rtpa and wreak some havoc. If you really want a dog eat dog type build, undead/tact is better since it can run high offense and have good thief defense. No rax saves a lot of space to be moved to hosp/GS, there is no TD or WT dilemma, and you won't be worried about faes/halfers propping your undead/rogue.
5. Halfling/mystic, same as ud/rogue, except better. Not identical b/c no damage modifier, but has identical stealth
6. You don't lose less thieves as undead/rogue