Guild% and variability

[Ethan]

So I, with my lame 6% guilds, get up a pair of 4 hour MS, and 2 hour Chastity. What is typical duration (wiki sites 8 hour MS), and typical variability for these spells?

Specifically, I don't have enough experience as a mage to know if I'm getting my +50% guild effect Bishop claims isn't a bug. Gotta know if my target really is 13.34% guilds.
http://forums.utopia-game.com/showth...s-still-broken.

(Yes, I know VT2 didn't post any evidence. God help us, I still trust him more than Bishop *on this particular point*. The "there are no bugs" reflex is getting pretty old.)

[Bishop]

you dont mention race (i assume you are mystic though) or the nws involved.

VT2 is wrong - what he mentions isnt a bug but a lack of understanding on his behalf.

[Ordray]

Not Mystic Bish, Faery. Mystic has 2x, but Faery has +50%

[Bishop]

mystic has a doubling mod too though

details needed Ethan!

sneaky edit Ordray :p Anyway, i dont really understand what Ethan is asking.

[Palem]

Ethan is trying to find out if he's getting his appropriate guild bonus from the Faery's +50% Magic Eff.

[Bishop]

faery doesnt have a guild bonus :/

[Ordray]

mystic has a doubling mod too though

details needed Ethan!

sneaky edit Ordray :p Anyway, i dont really understand what Ethan is asking.

I didn't edit though :P

He's referring to guild's success/duration mod, not the whole thing. If Human/Orc penalty reduces this by 20%, then it would make sense for +50% for Faery to do the opposite, right?

[Bishop]

it does the opposite alright.

[Ordray]

So, the success rate mod is 50% higher for Faeries, right? That's what Ethan is asking, I think.

[Bishop]

The amount that magic effectiveness mods success rate is 50% higher - i do not know if that translates to direct 50% though.

[Landro]

So I, with my lame 6% guilds, get up a pair of 4 hour MS, and 2 hour Chastity. What is typical duration (wiki sites 8 hour MS), and typical variability for these spells?

Guilds do not affect offensive spells directly. They affect them indirectly by training wizards but it doesn't matter how many or few guilds you have when you are casting offensive spells.

---edit---
ok, I was partly wrong. Guilds do affect duration of all spells.

[Bishop]

guild affect duration

[Ethan]

Arg, wrong "cites" in my OP.

Since it seems like it's turned into a serious discussion (not that I was really trying to troll that hard), I'll try to be a bit clearer.

Faery has +50% Magic effectiveness. (The same wording as the human penalty.) I am playing Faery/Sage this age. I hadn't thought about mystics, though I think if we sort this out for a Faery/Sage than mystic will be mostly understood too.

Afaik:
mWPA impacts offensive spell effect (amongst other factors).
Guild % impacts duration, both self spells and offensive (any other factors?).
Guild % impacts self spell success rate (no other factors).
Success rates are not linear based on their inputs. (They have many inputs over large ranges, but "output" a value between 0-1... so linear isn't sensible given the mapping that must be preformed.)

1) I am asking (in part) if duration (self and/or offensive) is linear on guild %.


2) +50% magic effectiveness is assumed to impact mWPA. I don't think there is any debate on that part. (Though confirmation never hurts.)
3) Does it also impact guild%? So 10% guilds works like 15% guilds effect? Or more relevantly, 13.34% guilds works like just over 20% guilds?
3a) Does it work for both duration and self spell success, or is only one (or neither) part of those two getting the bonus?
4) Does Faery bonus help spell effect (aka, more damage). (I believe not.)

All of these questions can also be asked of magic science. I thought they were the same wording, and same mechanic, but they may not be.

Finally,
5) Do racial magic effectiveness and sci magic effectiveness multiply, add, or some other formula?


VT2's bug post implies that *all* of these are true (most beneficial to faery, least beneficial to human). I don't think that is correct, but I'm not sure which, precisely, are true. (For one, I'm almost certain spell damage, as per questions 4, has an explicit different description for a bonus to it.) It's a bit of a muddle, but it sounded to me like Bishop agreed with that - which I'd be even more surprised with. (Not putting words into his mouth - it is a confusing thread, so I totally could be misreading all of that.)


Until the expected behavior is clearly defined, it is effectively impossible to show anything is a bug. It also has significant impact on race balance - bad assumptions leads to a long age with a race that doesn't play as expected. (Not impacting me - I'm only now getting to A/t/m from A/t. Hence why I know so little about offensive magic and high guild strats. But I'm sure others are out there wondering some of these things too.)

[VT2]

Maybe if you were kind enough to tell us what's really going, we'd not be 'misunderstanding' things.
Or the race is bugged to hell, and you're not in the mood to admit it.

[Backspin]

the damage modifier is at Elves currently, only for instant spells (+30% spell effects). Mystic still has the +30% duration bonus.
So it would surprise me greatly if magic effectiveness has anything to do with modifying damage.