Burning GS

[Realest]

is it a viable op to use prior to chaining someone?

Please discuss.

[flogger]

It mostly depends on how many hits you can make vs how many hits are needed to make an effective chain. Once you get down to really low numbers the extra hit or two becomes more and more valuable on a good chain, so the answer of course is, it depends.

A standard GS's burning will generally save you about 1-2 hits per 10 on a chain. (If I was home I'd just look at my chain calculator to remember which) If your target is 10 in-range hits and you only have 16 available hitters, burning GS's can be quite useful, as its often quite important to chain to a certain level and coming just a bit short of that level turns your chain from a good idea to a bad idea.

I think the question affects the number of rogues you want in your kingdom opposed to whether to do the op or not. Once you have the rogues there aren't too many more effective ops.

[Realest]

pulse has spoken, everyone take notes please.

[blacktar]

whats a chain calculator? i never heard of anything like that.
cant comment on the thread, im not knowledgeable enough

[Lead Pipe]

If the chain target has quite abit more nw than our attackers and is running a high percentage of GS, we'll burn them. But NS is more important, so we only burn if we have the spare stealth. If the opposing kd has provs which threaten to be unbreakable we might not burn any. If the kd runs low defense, we'll burn more often.

[flogger]

whats a chain calculator? i never heard of anything like that.
cant comment on the thread, im not knowledgeable enough

Just something I do in excel, assume 5% of their troops home die per hit, 5% of their peasants leave per hit, then 12% of their land lost * sci -GS's effect. Then drag it down to about twenty rows.

I find it most useful also calculating their NW's all the way down the line, so you can best line up your hitters to the target. Take their starting NW - acreslost (you calculated above)*55 - troops lost (you calculated above) *5.5 NW (average of dspecs/elites home, adjust if all leets are out)- peasant loss*1.

Numbers are approximates but more than close enough to assign a chain targ. Nothings worse than doing a 1x chain on someone and your 5th hitter is hitting at 75%, so best to know his NW prior to making the target.

I also tally up the losses from hitting and expected overpop at each step of the chain to figure out how deep I want to go. Too lazy to make it calculate how much troops leave per tick so I don't have to re-intel, but could be done as well.

However, most times when I do this, I find that chaining somewhat sucks and then just end up maxgaining. Then you do the Tibetten two step and Tallahassee shuffle instead. However, those are trade secrets. But if you got a paper of us recently you should be able to see it in action.

[Darkz Azn]

Odd =| you don't GS burn Dwarf with 30% GS ... =) Waste of stealth ... just NS them ...

[Realest]

flogger endorses max gain all war, will people believe me now :p

[Danrelle]

Oh Realest.. you were feeling sad that people don't believe in max gains, as you've promoted?
Of course we believe you. We've always believed you. I don't even think there was a time when most Utopians stopped believing in max gains. You have followers, no worries! ^^
I know some Utopians who secretly had a laugh that there was someone who had to defend max gains...

[clarey]

Let me reiterate.
2. I have used the example with Homes replacing TGs/Forts because both types of buildings serve the same functionality: both provide a bonus to offense. As we all know TGs/Forts provide modifiers, while Homes provide more troops. (Ofc, Homes do not give you enough troops to beat the modifiers. Ofc, Homes provide other benefits as well. (more pezzies/Income, better BE) Ofc you could replace Banks or what not. I gave this example to make a point: to show that entering War with Homes has some strategical value.)
3. I've never said one should build any Homes during War. The effect of Homes under discussion is to increase the population you have when you go into War. That's all.

l2play before dissing people who have consistently warred and won.

[Danrelle]

I wasn't dissing anyone puppy. Quite the opposite.

I appreciate pros steering other players back on the right path, after they have been steered away by some other pros. Particularly since Realest has once upon a time took the effort to explain why max gains is a good strat.

Edit: Ha ha, I see what you thought you understood. But what I said was meant quite literally.

Edit2: flutter, biased? good to see you agreeing with someone ^^

[flutterby]

l2play before dissing people who have consistently warred and won.

Sorry Cor... Puppy's right. She's almost always right.