Orc 'breaker'

[artax]

Been orc cleric this age and found that the reduced losses/extra soldiers arent really being used to their full effect as I havent been in a drawn out war or have been chained so quickly it didnt help anyway and that I dont make great use of my extra general so looking next age as possibly orc warrior. Assuming we keep the same stats from this age:

Having the 10% extra OME means I could have some serious hitting power so would be looking at being an unbreakable breaker/tripler and am thinking of running something like this:

22 TG
13 rax (as long as i get it under 11.90 in war so i can double hit all war)
18 GS
20 WT (1 raw tpa)
8 banks
7 farms
7 guilds (0.8 raw wpa)
5 towers

65% DR with 50/50 ratio of def specs to elites

I would have farms as low as i could and I do plenty of steals so would have good overall science. No hospitals is a downfall but i do get 15% fewer losses combined with elite creds. How does it look? this is in an active rank 90-100ish KD

[Palar]

I don't think a 50/50 split is good enough for an orc, run a set defence (6-8dspa) and whatever tpa then rest elites (you'd want ~10+ epa), otherwise it ain't quite 'serious hitting power'. Otherwise the build is decent, would probably go to 2 rTPA even with 20% WT, would seriously want more than 0.8 rWPA probably closer to 1.5-2 raw.

[Topsy]

I'm not an expert on orcs by any means, but I am also thinking about using one next age--so my comments are also questions.

Without cleric, I think hospitals are fairly important for orc. This is especially the case if you intend to get two hits in a day(as you say above). Without anon you will be ambushed, and without hospitals you'll lose elites fast. even if you do anon, your specs will dissapear quickly, which while fine as an orc with a large offense, will seize to be fine as that offense starts losing bits on offensive hits. You say that your orc wasn't really maximally effective because you weren't in a kd that had long wars, and when you did get hit, it was a hard chain. But even in a short war you might get semi-chained or "hard" chained by ghetto standards...inwhich case a cleric should be able to survive pretty easily(especially thanks to the ability to 5 tap).

As for dspecs:elites. I agree with palar, if you are orc, with that many TG, and warrior, then you should want as high a raw offense as possible. But this is of course again in part why cleric is so good. Orcs make sense as a high offense/low offense person who gets hit a lot, and is often chain target, and i think cleric helps defend that better than the extra offense.

Lastly, I'm not sure if palar's raw numbers work. 7 dpa, 10epa, 2 tpa, and 2 wpa = 21 person/acre. Without homes you're at a base 25 peasents/acre(i know, it'll go up), but 4 peasents per/acre is about 62% BE. Which is low.

2% dungeons is also pretty useful

edit: while thinking about it, I would like to add a question. Cleric is almost certainly better for a solo orc in a KD. It's also much better in case of chaining. But if the whole KD is orc(which is most effectie with orc regardless), then is that extra 10% offense as a KD more important? I still think they would want hospitals and 2% dungeons, but now that I'm thinkign at the KD stage im not as sure that cleric is the clearly better pers.

[Palar]

Those are the numbers you should be aiming for. Depending on your kd, you can lower your dpa, your wpa will mostly likely stay <1 or ~1 for the first 1-2 wars unless you are chained in which case your wpa will go towards 1.5. If he learns a lot (I'm assuming that's what he meant by 'I do plenty of steals so would have good overall science') then he should be able to up his pop and BE enough to cover most of it by mid-age. If he's active enough and willing to, he can choose to lower his dpa on purpose so that he soaks up hits for the kd and by actively doing OOW hits he should be able to get to whatever size the kds needs by next war (along with some plunders).

In war even with low BE having +10% OME, + 7.6% OME from wages gives him ~106opa which can be split with all gens, then including his 22% TG at even 75% it gives him ~127opa at 10 epa. At 9epa thats ~114opa (including everything) If you are nitpicky about BE then keep it at wat % you want and increase draft as you get science.

Cleric is good against ambushes espeically if they want to ambush just to kill your elites. As a kdwide thing, warrior coupled with bloodlust can be effective in chaining down provinces. However if you end up in a longer war then you'd want to be able to keep those elites and dspecs up so clerics probably have better survivability over longer wars in fact you could be gaining offence as war goes. If your getting NS'd and FB'd to hell then no combo will really help.

Dungeons are good if you are going to set your province up to be able to do multitaps, since if you refill the dungeons after every hit it multiplies their effectiveness, as a orc/cleric this age I can keep 3% filled with bloodlust casted.

[Topsy]

interesting. I knew capturing prisoners and killing troops were related to same formula, but for some reason didn't realize that meant bloodlust increased both as well.

[Landro]

Topsy, up to half the troops that would have been killed will be turned into prisoners if you have enough room.

[Smooch]

Orc cleric is far better than warrior

say you're gonna need 15% land for hospitals as warrior, or 15% rax for cleric. So for the same land usage, cleric gets a far better bonus, -50% casualties + dead troops convert to soldiers is far better than 15% hospitals.

10% ME bonus is nice, but cleric gets +3% as it is with the option to sacrafice that as an extra attack. The extra general useful for ambushing i find.


And as orc cleric, OOW you should be hitting twice a day anyway. Keep 20% GS and learn/plunder/trad march your heart out. You have +30% gains, guardstations, -50% troop loses and the highest offense in the game, so use it.

[Luc]

An active orc cleric can be awesome. A couple of ours have more science than our dwarf sages... They do learns and plunders constantly outside of war, and never have any issues getting ready for war. While in war, you pretty much have to ns them to pieces to stop them.

[Landro]

I play Orc Cleric this age and I'm loving it. Cleric is far too strong compared to Tact and War.
Minimal losses and +30% gains? Awesome! Almost every plunder is worth it.
Between wars you alternate plunders and learns and because all losses are replaced by soldiers, you don't have to worry about maintaining a high draft level.

[Ordray]

I play Orc Cleric this age and I'm loving it. Cleric is far too strong compared to Tact and War.
Minimal losses and +30% gains? Awesome! Almost every plunder is worth it.
Between wars you alternate plunders and learns and because all losses are replaced by soldiers, you don't have to worry about maintaining a high draft level.

Assuming that there aren't any drastic changes, that's exactly what I was going to play.

[bombdigie]

If you are not going to be in drawn out wars, try Orc sage and get huge Gains science. Learn your way to victory. Homes, Farms, GS, Banks, & Schools early, phase homes into Libraries when housing and tools science dictates.

[Palem]

@ artax -2 raw tpa is not sufficient. I'm running Orc Cleric I'm not comfortable at all going into a war with <2 tpa. I prefer to have ~2.5 tpa.

[Topsy]

Palem, is that with high WT? Also, what about wpa?

Bomb, i actually made a thread about orc sage--besides not having the awesome attributes of cleric(which especially becase of elite training is so over the top with orcs), the point was made that there is actually a cap on gains, which you noramlly reach with orc regardless.

I'm still not sure what that cap is, but if that's the case then its def not worth it.

[citadela01]

elites trained with credits+extra low casualties+casualties turned to soliders = immortal offence ... see ... incredibly synergy, cleric is teh ****.

[Palem]

I run about 15% WTs. Ideally I'd like to run 2 wpa, but realistically it ends up hovering around 1-1.5 raw lol