Thoughts from a Vet

[Ryshad]

I come from a long line of people who have served my country in war an peace. My grandmother was a drill instructor for the Army in WWII, my grandfather landed on Normandy. My father served in Vietnam on an aircraft carrier for the Navy. I have 1 brother that is still in the Marine Corps, one that retired 2 years ago and one that gave his life in Afghanistan. I served in the Marine Corps from 90-95. During my time I had 9 buddy I watched die in combat, 2 of which were under my command. I was fortunate enough to get out with all my fingers an toes attached, though shrapnel took most the feeling out of my left hand.

Since I have been out of the service I have been blessed. I have 4 beautiful daughters, one cranky ex wife and one very sexy girlfriend. During my divorce I sold my construction company that I started for enough money I could put my 4 kids through college. I currently own a janitorial company that allows me to work 4 days a week yet still can afford the luxury to travel an enjoy my life. I enjoy playing Utopia, poker an taking my kids to the amusement park.

Not a day goes by that I don't spend at least a few moments remembering my time in the service, both good an bad. I use to look at my kids and think that the sacrifices the men an women in the service make everyday was worth the freedoms we now enjoy. Then last night I was on a new IRC channel, talking with some fellow Utopians and I found myself in this conversation:

[00:50] <@octobrev> were you previously suggesting that those murderers we send overseas are somehow heroes?
[00:50] <@octobrev> they should be shot in the back of the head for coming back to us soil
[00:50] <Ovenmitt> are you suggesting war hero implied any particular side or team?
[00:50] <%MIPO> oh
[00:51] <%MIPO> thats harsh @ octo
[00:51] <@octobrev> its true
[00:51] <Ryshad> <@octobrev> were you previously suggesting that those murderers we send overseas are somehow heroes? <@octobrev> they should be shot in the back of the head for coming back to us soil <<<<---- what?
[00:51] <@octobrev> the majority of homeless people are veterans
[00:52] <Ryshad> And you live in the US Oct?
[00:52] <@octobrev> yeah
[00:52] <Ovenmitt> there are a [bunch] of homeless vets here in wa
[00:52] <Ryshad> And you say "<@octobrev> were you previously suggesting that those murderers we send overseas are somehow heroes? <@octobrev> they should be shot in the back of the head for coming back to us soil "?
[00:52] <Ovenmitt> i'm a vet, and i haev no sympathy for most of those clowns
[00:52] <@octobrev> 100%
[00:52] * %MIPO walks away from octo slowly before fbi shows up
[00:52] <@octobrev> how can we celebrate murder in one hand and punish it in the other
[00:53] <Ryshad> Those men an women are the reason you can sit on your [butt] an play this game.
[00:53] <Ovenmitt> problem is homeless vets want to blame 'the system' or what the hell ever, when its their own [freaking] fault
[00:53] <%MIPO> False @ Ryshad
[00:53] <Ovenmitt> you're a [freaking] veteran, but that doesnt make you special or entitled to any kind of handout
[00:53] <Ryshad> I am a veteran.
[00:53] <Ovenmitt> get a job you bum, may apply.
[00:53] <Ryshad> And I dont ask [freaking] thing from you or anyone
[00:53] <Ryshad> Never have
[00:53] <Ryshad> never will
[00:53] <%MIPO> whoa try getting shot at all day
[00:53] <%MIPO> I wouldn't work a day after that
[00:53] <@octobrev> i dont think i would hire a veteran
[00:54] <@octobrev> they tend to be unstable
[00:54] <Ovenmitt> most veterans are bad workers
[00:54] <%MIPO> duh
[00:54] <Ovenmitt> because most soldiers are bad workers
[00:54] <@Aventador> im surprised, Ovenmitt is an army dude he has great grammar skills
[00:54] <@octobrev> so in terms of net happiness
[00:54] <Ryshad> I can say I am [freaking] flabbergasted
[00:54] <@octobrev> my solution works
[00:54] <Ryshad> [expletive] you
[00:54] <%MIPO> No it doesn't
[00:54] <Ovenmitt> lol
[00:54] <@octobrev> we solve problems on both fronts
[00:55] <%MIPO> then nobody will want to fight in the army
[00:55] <@octobrev> exactly
[00:55] <@Aventador> Ryshad , did you lose a left midddle finger? i notice you cant seem to spell words with a 'd' properly




Well - no Aventador, I didn't lose a finger. I caught shrapnel in my hand when a mortar round landed in the school playground were we where patrolling. The Marine next to me an the 2 little kids he was talking to weren't so fortunate. None of them made it home,

At first I was really really upset by Octo an Mittens attitude. I had to think about it though and my opinion has changed. I can say I don't respect either of them like I use to. I can say I respect their right to voice their opinion though. After all, it was me and my family that fought so hard to give them that right.

[Darkz Azn]

odd Ryshad ... it's 4am ... im too lazy repeat myself ... so im gonna copy and paste =)

[04:00:33] <MikeHunt> odd Ryshad
[04:00:59] <MikeHunt> u know half these people here are under age of 30
[04:01:06] <MikeHunt> actually ill say 70%
[04:01:20] <MikeHunt> so yes ... immature response are always there
[04:02:09] <MikeHunt> plus since this is an international game, you will not expect such for the US
[04:02:10] <MikeHunt> =)
[04:02:41] <MikeHunt> I'm not disagreeing with you, but ... it's best to ignore people on the intraweb with their silly crap
[04:02:42] <MikeHunt> =)

[Syntico]

If you need basic training on how to spot a troll, I'm available at #FantasticTrollfags

[Darkz Azn]

syntico is odd

[Militaryman]

vets getting hand outs, most ask for nothing.... There are lots of homeless people living in america. They say the vet homeless rate is high compared to the national avg, but they are not saying most vets are homeless.And yea its going to be higher avg then the civilian side as the vet pop is a vastly smaller number then the numbers used by the US for non vet homeless counts. And alot of that has and is changing. Im not even going to get into what conflict/unit/branch or discharge type ovenmitts has been in etc in a public forum, but I will say most veterans with a college education and or secondary training are far from bad workers. I can list several companies that prefer veterans(none of the ones i can list will be in the security industry)over civilians, and alot more if I include private security and national security divisions along with local law enforcement agencies. But most vets that have been through the gulf on up are not disrespectful to other vets in any manner like hes potraying himself in. as for octo. just remember voicing your opinions on the net may be your wisest decision in life. As those who you call "murderers" can always kill again :) O and yes since someone is going to ask I am a vet. was in OIF 05-06- 07-08 and recently OEF 10-11. And as for murderers I saw more Iraqis blow up Iraqis. along with afghanistan, more people died from roadside bombs or random ambushes then what the US caused in my AO(not saying there were not accidents, as its war people die).Like my old squad leader always said- Theres those that have balls and those that have nothing at all. But your welcome for your freedom of speech :)

[Darkz Azn]

odd ... Freedom fighter ... Terrorists ... odd =)

[Militaryman]

And btw not everyone in the military is in a combat MOS(11b,11c,19D,the 18 series,13F,13M to name a few). you really think the doctors go overseas to kill people? Or the mail handlers, chow hall workers(usually only seen on the far out in the mountain afcops and ancops nowadays),mechanics, supply clerks, if so your quite ignorant and a complete fool octobrev.

[Gallowmere]

/sigh

I wouldn't go so far as to say some of the incredibly stupid things that Octo did, but some of his points are valid...albeit phrased abrasively, with intent to troll.

The fact is, following orders or following a whim, murder is murder. I can assure you, without a single grain of doubt, that not one of those combatants (ours or theirs) that have been killed since all of this crap began, posed any real threat to a single person who either blew them up, or pulled the trigger on them. How can that be the case? Our troops shouldn't be there.

"But he was pointing a gun at me...": You shouldn't be there.
"They were taking children from their native country hostage...": You shouldn't be there.

Just remember that one simple phrase, and suddenly it all makes sense. As for the 'Those men an women are the reason you can sit on your [butt] an play this game', not so much. I am pretty sure there are people from all over the world, say Singapore (just as an example since there are two in my KD), and I don't see their country trying to police the world. The assumption that if it weren't for our fellow citizens volunteering to kill people (whom they'd never have even met otherwise), we'd be living under some iron fist wielding totalitarian regime, or burned to the ground by terrorist, is inherently flawed, and absurd on it's face.

The only combat groupings that was ever needed to give us what we have in America now, occurred well before any of us were alive (1753-1783 and 1861-1865). Then again, you could throw 1945 in there, just because who knows what kind of god awful crap technology we'd be using now if Japan hadn't have been put into a non-militant state. ;)

[Sharaf]

Gallowmere - i understand your logic, i really do.
lets see if we can use it in other place's:
"But he was bombing London...": You shouldn't be there.
"But he was conquering France...": You shouldn't be there.
"But he was takeing over Poland...": You shouldn't be there.
"But he was killing every black skin person...": You shouldn't be there.
"and every non heterosexual person...": You shouldn't be there.
"and every gypsy ...": You shouldn't be there.
"and all the semitic...": You shouldn't be there.

i wounder, if the usa used that logic, what would have happen to utopia players from UK, France and Poland...
i guess the same thing that could have happen to every back skin person, non heterosexual person , to the gypsys and the semitic in Europe.

[Magn]

The only combat groupings that was ever needed to give us what we have in America now, occurred well before any of us were alive (1753-1783 and 1861-1865). Then again, you could throw 1945 in there, just because who knows what kind of god awful crap technology we'd be using now if Japan hadn't have been put into a non-militant state. ;)

Now, my pride is slightly wounded.

You are implying that the English winning over the French was sorely needed.

As a native francophone speaker, I beg to differ.

The founding principles of your constitutions are French inspired (without all those French thinkers during the enlightenment years, you may as well kiss your constitution bye bye) and the French actually helped you during your independence war vs England.

In some ways, you are more akin to the French than we are in Quebec (where the mother language of most people is French).

[Landro]

I wouldn't take anything that Octo says seriously.

Still, we live in a very messed up world. We teach our children that killing is wrong and when they grow up we send them as soldiers to some other country to kill people.
But I still have respect for people who are willing to risk their own lives to protect others.

[Gallowmere]

Gallowmere - i understand your logic, i really do.
lets see if we can use it in other place's:
"But he was bombing London...": You shouldn't be there.
"But he was conquering France...": You shouldn't be there.
"But he was takeing over Poland...": You shouldn't be there.
"But he was killing every black skin person...": You shouldn't be there.
"and every non heterosexual person...": You shouldn't be there.
"and every gypsy ...": You shouldn't be there.
"and all the semitic...": You shouldn't be there.

i wounder, if the usa used that logic, what would have happen to utopia players from UK, France and Poland...
i guess the same thing that could have happen to every back skin person, non heterosexual person , to the gypsys and the semitic in Europe.

The ONLY people responsible for flying those planes into those buildings died among the other 3000 or so. Everything since then has been nothing ghost chasing, scapegoating and warmongering. Acting in self defense and repeatedly picking fights are VERY different things. No, your examples are NO different. We are not the world police, protectors of the forsaken, or any other such garbage. If people don't like the way things are going in their country, they are generally free to leave in some way, even during war, even if it may be 'illegal'. The fact that if they came to America, we would send them back to their country of origin to be prosecuted for 'draft dodging' or any such nonsense, just makes us look like even bigger assholes than our current run of things.

People in general really need to come to accept the fact that the only real resource any person has of any real value is the time that they have left to live. Dying over a piece of dirt is not noble. It's flat out stupid. Pride be damned. Move.

People in the military often like to get high on themselves with the whole 'look at what we do for you' line, and to a degree, they are right. However, their intentions are rarely as noble as one would imply. Tell people that it's a volunteer service, and see how noble they are then. Generally, what we see in the military are people who had no other career choices, or their parents were too poor to afford a college education for them. Does that make them lesser people? Of course not, but it is a bit telling that it isn't quite as high minded as people would like for it to appear.

Now, my pride is slightly wounded.

You are implying that the English winning over the French was sorely needed.

As a native francophone speaker, I beg to differ.

The founding principles of your constitutions are French inspired (without all those French thinkers during the enlightenment years, you may as well kiss your constitution bye bye) and the French actually helped you during your independence war vs England.

In some ways, you are more akin to the French than we are in Quebec (where the mother language of most people is French).

I only included the extended time frame for the French and Indian war because it was integral in the British gaining primary control of the colonies, then having their asses sent home by the colonist a few decades later. Would things have been different if the French had have taken the victories? Probably. How? No one will ever know. I can only assume that if the French (or even the British) could have won without the insane debt racked up by the British (and the following massive tax levies which set the whole thing in motion), America could very well still be happily under European rule. Again, we will never know.

[Sharaf]

Gallowmere - true, a man who's country just got hit can try and fight or run, but in war it's not that simple.
Also true that the usa is not the police force of the world - but, you cant take away that the acts of the usa in WW2 did made this wold a batter place.

makeing the world a batter place was what they did in WW2 - you can say it was'nt needed and who care about all those who died and could have died, but that what make a person a good person.

[Bishop]

This one time years ago someone did something, rah rah rah. Its irrelevant now.

Is it 1945 now? No,it is not.

[Landro]

If Japan hadn't been stupid enough to attack Pearl Harbor, the USA wouldn't have been involved in the war.