Thoughts from a Vet

[rouls]

and for reference i am american

[Gallowmere]

"No, not voting doesn't give you more of a right to ***** then everyone else, it gives you less. If you choose to not have a voice in how things are done in this country that is fine, don't sit back with your lazy arguements about things being wrong though when you voluntarily allow others to make decisions for you."

Tell you what...find me someone worth 'getting off my duff' and voting for, and I will. Chances are good that this candidate could not be from the Republican, nor Democratic parties, and as such, will have zero chance of winning. This country is more about factions than even the most twisted third world country, and that is a huge part of the problem. Hell, Ron Paul is running as a Republican, and still has zero chance of even winning the primary, due to his being practically blackballed by the media.

"You are right, it was not his vote. He would rather sit around baying about how terrible the world is an judging others for their actions instead of getting off his duff an changing it."

When was the last time voting changed anything in this country's direction? Hell, even looking at recent the most recent elections:

2008 brought us change? No, it brought us more of the same imperialistic garbage, just with some socialized medicine to wash it down.

2010's congressional votes? Nah, no change there. We just have more Republicans feeding the war machine now than Democrats in one house of congress.

Votes don't change anything, and as we can see now, neither do protests. Those police you were so quick to bring up earlier? Yeah, they're busy shooting your fellow veterans in the face with gas canisters, or beating the hell out of them, and leaving them in a jail cell for hours on end while suffering from internal bleeding.

[Gallowmere]

"Yes, I am aware I am considered a terrorist in several other countries. And they are welcome to come apprehend me an hold me accountable for my actions any time they feel froggy. As far as that guys nephew - you once again make assumptions based on no facts and hold them to be true. Hey, you do that alot ... referance your comment about 'all the guys that were responsible for 9/11 died in the attack' ... you were wrong then too. The guys flying the planes died, yes, but they weren't the only ones involved in that plot."

They couldn't come after you if their lives depended upon it. Such is the 'might makes right' way the world works right now.

Oh, and as for my assumptions...there's this crazy thing in this country called 'guilty until proven innocent', or have you not heard of it? The burden of proof lies with the executioner, not the one being executed...or at least it used to.

I said directly responsible for the towers.

"You know what, if you think America so bad just save us all the hassle an leave. You have that right you know."

This is everyone's final response when they have no real argument left. However, I am sure that it will tickle you to know that I already have plans in the works to do just that.

Oh, and just for the record, I am not your run of the mill pacifist. I am actually a sick **** who, deep down somewhere inside, would love nothing more than to see a true world superpower finally have the balls to end 90% of the world's population with nuclear arms, then subjugate the remaining 10%. However, my morality forces me in the other direction. What I want, versus what I know is good are two very different things. More people should try working for the latter...especially this country's 'leaders', and the mindless repeater bots that follow them.

[Ryshad]

pfft

[Nuriho]

By not voting he is making a point; he supports non of the candidates. By voting for the sake of voting he would not be voicing this opinion.

Just interjecting on the nonsense here: By not voting, he doesn't have a right to say he does or does not like actions the leaders take. If he voted for himself on the ballet, that would give him that right. By not voting, he is not participating in the decisions at ANY level. If he voted, he could say "I voted for xxx 'cus I didn't want that bull**** to happen" this is clearly not the case here, he didn't vote at all, so he has as much voice as Iranians' voice to influence their leaders decisions.

Note: votes may not change for you, because of the factions, but most of America votes for those factions. If it was very horrible, those people wouldn't be getting voted for; things would be getting changed.
When was the last time a voice mattered? Go check out demandprogress.org
There they fight against nonsense, but mainly net neutrality, by using the voices of the states to help influence the senator's and congressman's votes, as those voices represent who voted for those people to do what they, as a state, want.

[Landro]

.....

Please stop using acid

[Gallowmere]

Just interjecting on the nonsense here: By not voting, he doesn't have a right to say he does or does not like actions the leaders take. If he voted for himself on the ballet, that would give him that right. By not voting, he is not participating in the decisions at ANY level. If he voted, he could say "I voted for xxx 'cus I didn't want that bull**** to happen" this is clearly not the case here, he didn't vote at all, so he has as much voice as Iranians' voice to influence their leaders decisions.

Note: votes may not change for you, because of the factions, but most of America votes for those factions. If it was very horrible, those people wouldn't be getting voted for; things would be getting changed.
When was the last time a voice mattered? Go check out demandprogress.org
There they fight against nonsense, but mainly net neutrality, by using the voices of the states to help influence the senator's and congressman's votes, as those voices represent who voted for those people to do what they, as a state, want.

So, let me see if I have this straight. Basically, you are saying, that by wasting my time participating in a process that I find to be utterly loaded, in order to cast a vote for someone that has less than zero chance of being elected, my voice should suddenly have weight?

/sigh When will you people understand that the voting system in EVERY country is a joke? No matter how you look at it. I'll start with this:

"Democracy has proved only that the best way to gain power over people is to assure the people that they are ruling themselves. Once they believe that, they make wonderfully submissive slaves." ~~~~Joseph Sobran.

Secondly, even if it were the case of real 'majority rule', it is still wrong to it's core. Believe it or not, MOST Americans were against the civil rights movement of over 50 years ago. Does that mean that black people should still be sitting at the back of the bus, and getting served only at the back door of restaurants? When you have majority rule, at LEAST one person's freedoms are being crushed under that majority. As such, it is fundamentally flawed. If freedom cannot be for everyone, then it should be for no one. This is where my Totalitarian tendencies start to show through, so I will avoid that for now.

[The Imp]

If freedom cannot be for everyone, then it should be for no one. This is where my Totalitarian tendencies start to show through, so I will avoid that for now.

define freedom plz

[Gallowmere]

Freedom, by it's very definition is the ability to be left alone, free of all intrusion; any and all transactions and or occupations being of a voluntary nature, until a person proves that anything else is necessary. In my eyes, the only proof of such is one forcing something upon another person by use of aggressive force, or deception. This list of crimes that would fit into this are pretty minimal, compared to all of the garbage laws we have now. Most of said crimes have punishments that are monetary based (fines and fees), which means that they are nothing more than cash cow laws to benefit the state, and as such, should be done away with.

The state's only real job, should be the defense of it's people, and even that could eventually be phased out by private industry. For proof of this in action, look at all of the 'private contractors' (read: mercenaries) that the US already has in foreign countries.

However, before the argument is used against me that the US is trying to provide such to the citizens of other states (which is bull**** anyway), I'll state the following. Any of my comments pertaining to an ought, should be considered to apply only to the United States. What any other country does is none of my business anyway, as I am not a citizen of said states. What any other places' people allow their leaders to do to them is of no concern to me.

Edit: to put it much more simply, every person should be able to make their own decisions, so long as there is no real harm inflicted upon another person in the process. 'Majority rule' is nothing but a slightly different form of tyranny.

[Militaryman]

There are a lot of ruthless dictators in sub-Saharan Africa but I've yet to see NATO put an end to those regimes. Why? Because whatever those countries have to offer to NATO members, they can get without getting rid of those dictators.

Should probably read the world news or do some research. Nato has been providing aid and peace keeping to a lot of african nations for years with nothing in return..just rcently the nato unit in africa(africom is what the US designates the AO as) pushed out the militant religious fanatics out of most of mogadishu. And most recent uprisings like libya,egypt and such were due to the people fed up with their harsh government ruling parties/practices. And to be honest americans have a lot of freedoms, there are countries where gays are still prosecuted, internet is censored, affection in public like holding hands is not allowed, and talking against the gov is illegal.

[The Imp]

talking against the gov is illegal.

yeah yeah in america you can talk all the **** you want wohoooooo.... now try and act on your talk and all you get is dead ends. they give you enough to make you content, and nothing more, and people just buy into it like theres no better alternative

[Gallowmere]

Precisely, Imp. Many people seem to have taken on this "Hey, at least we're not Somalia" attitude in the US. 'Good enough' is the worst enemy 'be the best' can have. Contentment breeds contempt over time. When societies fail to advance, they decline. I honestly believe that is what we are seeing now. Too much 'good enough' is leading to a complicit crowd of 'sheeple'.

As for places where the internet is censored...oh, how does that foot taste? Feel free to check out the new internet bill being taken up by Congress this month. Can't recall the title right off hand.

[Korp]

yeah yeah in america you can talk all the **** you want wohoooooo.... now try and act on your talk and all you get is dead ends. they give you enough to make you content, and nothing more, and people just buy into it like theres no better alternative

Its not a dead end, just look at the civil right movement and you can tell it works.

[Nuriho]

i really don't understand then. please teach me. If you aren't content with "good enough" why don't you change it to be "better" or "best" or, even "good"? Why don't you leave if you can't change it?

just look at the civil right movement and you can tell it works.

if you don't use your voice, what do you use? please, teach me.

[Jo3MoMMa]

being grateful should not be confused with being complacent