UF NEWS: Harmony HaJ defeat Vengeance

[Drengi]

Im not bashing HaJ here but need something clarified.

When you are waved you have options:
Give up free wave in exchange for cf.
Declare war
Retal war

Am I correct in these options? Boko you said this to me the other day I believe. Ive also been asking lots of questions from monarchs that have mucho experience and wisdom, and gotten the same feedback.

So vengeance waving perversion then immediately getting double hostiled by HaJ seems like its way outside the "moral grounds" of the utopian community. Or am I looking at it wrong mad scotty? (being sincere)

If this action is ok I don't see how HaJ can call themselves a "defensive" alliance, and it would appear everyone needs to have friends and allies of their own before waving a HaJ kd since you are risking getting doubled by doing so.

Maybe im missing something, but I feel like these are valid questions.

Double Hostile... A curious thing.

I think perhaps a lot of people in this thread need clarification on this. If you cause a double hostile YOURSELF, dont go crying about it after. Its not like two HaJ KD's picked on PH and vengence. He caused one of the hostiles himself. Its not like 2 KD's just started beating on him for the fun of it.

If I was to get waved by someone then myself wave 3 other KD's causing a 4x Hostile, could I then cry about it in the forums after? When you go ahead and go hostile with someone, you better make damn sure they are going to war you and no-one else is gonna come after your ass, or it is your OWN fault. When PH waved Perversion he knew they would not war him straight from and EOW CF, he was looking for free acres. Your not always going to get what you want in Utopia, thats not how it works.

You dont just get to point and say "I want his land", then go ahead and take it. Tough titties, sometimes you cant get exactly what you want. And if you need to cry about it after you need to grow up. Go away and learn some diplomacy, go and learn how to play nicely with others.

[Drop Dead Sexy (DDS)]

Sounds like another one sided war report written up, which quickly touched on HaJ gb 2v1 pre war? Weak, I'm not even gonna read anymore.

[DDodge]

Thank you for clarifying HaJ viewpoint Drengi.

I would have to disagree with the alliance's viewpoint on those things then. Who doesn't get waved coming oow? 96 hours is a very long time... More than sufficient.

Seems like your attitude is that if someone waves a HaJ kingdom that doesn't want war, another HaJ kd will come to their aid. My opinion is that while its still an active hostile and no war or cf has been reached the other kd shouldnt interfere.

Or perhaps I need to change my way of thinking, but that would force everyone to play in alliances.

[Drengi]

Ddodge, all your doing is stirring because of your history with ICE. I am not talking about the views of HaJ, merely the subject of hostiles. Why don't you keep your bitterness in your own thread. If you are still upset about it go speak with boko on irc, or pm maddy to ask about the alliances viewpoint. Don't try and twist my words into me being a spokesperson, your not smart enough mate.

[Mad_Scottish]

I clearly need to wade back into this because it is turning into something it isnt. Due to the history that we had with PH over this age and the fact they waved Perversion the same hour they came out of war.... they were presented with a situation where PH was demanding a certain amount of acres then hits or vice versa. Ultimately, because of the history Vengeance were not going to back off so rather than getting into futile talks because communications between reps of the alliances (myself included) had completely broken down because of the history and the fact that I was not remotely in the mood to be diplomatic against someone that wasn't going to be either.

I chose to involve my kingdom. It is not haj policy to engage a kingdom waving one of ours, with another of our kingdoms. So I would ask everyone to stop distorting the situation. If you read the article you can see there is history between vengeance and haj and it was this history that dictated the response that vengeance got. Terminology can be banded about as much as people want it to be but people also need to stop making up definitions.

I have no problems with PH whatsoever now and we are working towards building a trust between him and us but given the situation and the fact that we have had really poor interactions with him over this age doesnt mean that we react that way to every kd that crops up hitting our kds.

Also, the only people that can give a few on the alliance and how her policies work is myself, edge, tea and palestine. Outwidth that group it is simply personal opinion.

Ddodge, if you hit a kingdom and they dont hit back it isnt an active hostile. It is just one kingdom hitting another kingdom. The other kingdom needs to be attacking for it to become an active hostile.

[DHaran]

Ddodge, if you hit a kingdom and they dont hit back it isnt an active hostile.

Might not be an "active" hostile, but hitting a kingdom while another has an open button on them is absolutely a double hostile.

[Mad_Scottish]

Disagree but you are entitled to your opinion Dharan.

[Meeni]

Disagree but you are entitled to your opinion Dharan.

Harmony started hitting Vengeance the next hour to help get Vengeance to back off of Perversion.

Did perversion respond at all to the hits?

[DDodge]

Im sorry Drengi, I did ask the alliances viewpoint and you quoted me and responded.

The false accusations regarding me trying to "spin" something are funny... And you prove you have no insight into any of my situation. Boko has actually taught me quite a bit recently and there's no issues, so get your facts straight. My questions were valid because what ive been getting taught as the standard accepted actions are not what went down here. Probably should have kept your mouth shut.

Scotty thanks for the post regarding what went down. I would agree with DHaran in regards to that last comment but in regards to the rest it obviously has a history and so appreciate you explaining that further.

[DDodge]

@ meeni they apparently opped the **** out of them ^_^

[Drop Dead Sexy (DDS)]

I clearly need to wade back into this because it is turning into something it isnt. ...

Sorry Maddy, tbh I didnt read barley any of the back and forth banter, but what you say here seems very reasonable to me, it is after all a war game.

I still however have issue with articles being biased, and in this case the other monarch shows up to say that his side of story was not included.

Sure I read the part where PH was a douche to your reporter... but in my opinion that means the article doesnt get submitted right? At least thats been MY experience.

You should give me a reporter job. I would really enjoy it. Maybe we can get some more interviews done, these trivial wars are getting boring.

[mjonte]

You should give me a reporter job. I would really enjoy it. Maybe we can get some more interviews done, these trivial wars are getting boring.

http://forums.utopia-game.com/showth...am-needs-staff

[Mad_Scottish]

mjonte come and talk to me on irc and we can look at sorting something out.

Meenie, Perversion had 4 of their halfers NS Jupiter when he started hitting I believe. As far as I am aware it stopped hours before before we went to war. The NS took place within a 2 hour period of the hits coming in as I was getting updated on the situation from Perversion and getting a summary of what PH was asking from them.

I got my kingdom involved after I got updated because myself and perversion did not feel Vengeance were going to back off so rather than waste time trying to be diplomatic because we had a really bad relationship with PH I didnt bother talking to him. I just messaged the people in my kingdom to get online when they could and started hitting. We went to war and voila, end results have been shown with this article.

Ddodge in fairness to you drengi did respond but at no point was he dictating haj policy and I am trying to see from his post how he was to give you the benefit of the doubt. It even looks like person opinion as oppossed to an alliance one. It should also be very evident by now from the posts and the fact that a lot of the history has been listed and I would have thought it was obvious as to why Vengeance got the reaction they did from us (haj). Whether it is right or wrong is debatable because we are the ones in the situation and all we can do is react accordingly when confronted with different situations and how we acted in this scenario felt like the best decision and I still believe that it was by far.

Given my conversations with PH since war ended I feel we have been able to work towards a mutual peace that can at least start to develop....time will tell.

[aremarf]

i have no ego but id be happy to introduce you to PH to form that alliance.

sending bounce wave is also part of a strategy to take down banks nublet. him having a mouth just fueled the initial rage ^_^

i could share a drink with PH i think though. we are just 2 sides of the same coin. cept im the smarter and sexier side.

I am just scorning that coin the both of you make up. And also the alliance help that HaJ manages to marshall to gain an advantage.

For the record, however, other than exploiting alliances - Mad Scottish is a well-spoken and measured guy who would be nice to talk to. We would probably politely disagree about what alliances can honourably do for members though.

And Mad Scottish I can understand why you are annoyed by Purple Haze being so arrogant. Funny thing is - you have another side of the same coin in your alliance? Double standards, eh?

[DHaran]

Disagree but you are entitled to your opinion Dharan.

I'm sorry could I have a clarification? Is it your opinion that if I catch your kingdom waving someone, I can immediately wave you because you are not in an active hostile? And since this is not a double hostile (in your opinion) you would not be angry with me?